City gets $25 million for streetcar (Cincinnati, Warren: rent, employment, school)

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by captaincatfish

1) Where is Wilson1010, and what did you do with him?

2) What's a 'petulant college sponge'? Is it more educated than a 'Mr Clean Sponge', and will it get my tub and shower clean any faster?

3) I gotta weigh in on the rail thingie here...I'm from Cleveland originally, where we had both light and heavy rail, and a not-too-bad bus sytem...I've visited Pittsburgh quite a few times, and have ridden their buses and rail system---I'll give them both about a 7.5 to 8 out of 10...

That being said, I kinda wish we had some kind of rail here in Cincinnati/SW Ohio...if not a streetcar, then maybe light rail of some kind...WPipkins hit a good one when he spoke about linking the urban core---I'd LOVE to be able to get from point A to point B faster, especially during football and baseball season...also, I'd like to be able to get to stuff downtown and elsewhere in the city, and not be a prisoner in/of my car all the time...

And I gotta give ya another LOL moment here...I'm not a petulant college sponge, or even a Mr Clean Sponge...I'm just a 50-something guy who doesn't mind walking, but would like the option of not having to once in a while

To close, I address this to all who may read this post: why in the world does EVERYTHING boil down to politics, or race, for cryin' out loud? Look here---Republicans/conservatives are NOT ALL a bunch of evil stuffed-shirts...Democrats/liberals are NOT ALL Prius-driving, clueless tree-huggers...and blacks, whites, and everybody else should just shut the hell up sometimes and try being civil, instead of always barking at each other like a pack of rabid dogs...just sayin'

I was only half as good as I thought I was, hence 513/1010.

The X buses are really nice if you haven't been on them. And those new segmented buses look really cool.

From my perspective, if you can only fill two X buses per hour along the I-71 corridor every morning, you sure as heck don't need a train. The X buses make the trip faster (38 minutes from Kings Is. to Government Square) than any rail in Pittsburgh or Portland or Cleveland in terms of time per mile (for you out of towners, that's 33 commute miles in 38 minutes or about twice as fast as your trains) and cost less and yet no one is on them. So who exactly would ride the train if there is only two buses? Train freaks?

As for the petulant college sponges, these M gens think everything should be for their convenience.

[kjbrill]

I have a similar opinion. If the express buses from the outer suburbs cannot generate enough ridership to exist, why would a train? If it is too inconvenient to go to a nearby park and ride to take the reasonably priced bus and avoid downtown parking fees, who would do the same thing to go to a train station?

[wpipkins]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

I have a similar opinion. If the express buses from the outer suburbs cannot generate enough ridership to exist, why would a train? If it is too inconvenient to go to a nearby park and ride to take the reasonably priced bus and avoid downtown parking fees, who would do the same thing to go to a train station?

You would be surprised.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by wpipkins

You would be surprised.

Yes I would. Please explain to me how more luxurious the train is than the bus. Modern buses are a quite nice ride. I just don't buy the idea people will favor the train over the bus, particularly since their routes and times have to be more rigid. Now if they are heavily subsidized I can understand. But this does not make them better, just a higher subsidy.

[Dayton Sux]

Pip, Cincinnati is called the City of Seven Hills" for a reason. It is expremely hilly here

...but not as hilly as Pittsburgh. Pbgh was built right on the Alleghany Plateau, so you are talking a different kind of topograhy vs the Cincy situation. Also, Cincy has areas of flat land around downtown (with neighborhoods like West End and Over-the-Rhine ) compared to Pittsburgh, where downtown is cut off from the surrounding neighborhoods by the rivers and hills.

Despite this, Pittsburgh seems to have a healthier downtown than Cincy. Dont know if that has anything to do with public transit. They do have a small subway in Pittsburgh which takes their streetcar line into downtown.

[Dayton Sux]

Yes I would. Please explain to me how more luxurious the train is than the bus. Modern buses are a quite nice ride. I just don't buy the idea people will favor the train over the bus,

I was up in Cleveland for a convention and liked their dedicated busway bus that goes out to Case Western Reserve and Little Italy. Nice bus, reminded me of what they had in Germany.

The big failing with this, though, is that if you have a rapid transit rail line on dedicated right-of-way (like Cleveland has), you can have more reliable schedules and get to places faster, since there is no traffic issues.

I figure this streetcar concept would have that same issue since its running on the street, not on dedicated right-of-way.

As for differences in ridership, yeah, obejectivley, machts nichts right? But for some reason the ridership numbers dont really prove that, since for some reason people prefer riding rail transit. I can't explain it, but from what I've read there is a difference in preference between bus & train, all things being equal.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

...but not as hilly as Pittsburgh. Pbgh was built right on the Alleghany Plateau, so you are talking a different kind of topograhy vs the Cincy situation. Also, Cincy has areas of flat land around downtown (with neighborhoods like West End and Over-the-Rhine ) compared to Pittsburgh, where downtown is cut off from the surrounding neighborhoods by the rivers and hills.

Despite this, Pittsburgh seems to have a healthier downtown than Cincy. Dont know if that has anything to do with public transit. They do have a small subway in Pittsburgh which takes their streetcar line into downtown.

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

I was up in Cleveland for a convention and liked their dedicated busway bus that goes out to Case Western Reserve and Little Italy. Nice bus, reminded me of what they had in Germany.

The big failing with this, though, is that if you have a rapid transit rail line on dedicated right-of-way (like Cleveland has), you can have more reliable schedules and get to places faster, since there is no traffic issues.

I figure this streetcar concept would have that same issue since its running on the street, not on dedicated right-of-way.

As for differences in ridership, yeah, obejectivley, machts nichts right? But for some reason the ridership numbers dont really prove that, since for some reason people prefer riding rail transit. I can't explain it, but from what I've read there is a difference in preference between bus & train, all things being equal.

Fact check:

Downtown Pittsburgh is built on the flood plain of the river, just like Cincinnati and is flat. The Google Earth elevations for Pittsburgh are within an eyelash of those for Cincinnati.

The 11 mile trip to the south suburbs on the blue line takes 36 minutes. That is about 1/3 as fast as Cincinnati's X buses.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

I was only half as good as I thought I was, hence 513/1010.

Nice to meet you. I think. What's next? Wilson271?

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Please explain to me how more luxurious the train is than the bus.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. The lack of noise alone is worth the extra money for train fare. The stops are shorter -- more than one person can get on at once -- and farther apart, and without all that jerking and revving and diesel exhaust that the bus offers. It really is a more pleasant ride.

[wpipkins]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

Fact check:

Downtown Pittsburgh is built on the flood plain of the river, just like Cincinnati and is flat. The Google Earth elevations for Pittsburgh are within an eyelash of those for Cincinnati.

The 11 mile trip to the south suburbs on the blue line takes 36 minutes. That is about 1/3 as fast as Cincinnati's X buses.

Downtown Pittsburgh is not flat. It goes uphill from point state park to grant street. pittsburgh does have a rougher terrain than cincy and it gets even more noticeable as you go east of the city (laurel highlands) Satellite images may be a bit decieving. Which south suburb are you referring to? I 'd rather take a 36 minute train ride than sit in downtown traffic for 45 minutes waiting to get across the liberty bridge and tunnel or the fort pitt bridge and tunnel. once you get through the tunnel, you still have to navigate the narrow streets and highways. 36minutes vs 1 hour, take your pick.

[wpipkins]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Yes I would. Please explain to me how more luxurious the train is than the bus. Modern buses are a quite nice ride. I just don't buy the idea people will favor the train over the bus, particularly since their routes and times have to be more rigid. Now if they are heavily subsidized I can understand. But this does not make them better, just a higher subsidy.

When the martin Luther King East Busway extension plans were made public, there was alot of opposition to the plan. Eastern suburban communites did not want the noice and pollution (and poorer demographic) passing through their community. They insisted that the port Authority of Allegheny county convert the existing busway (busiest and most traveled port authority line) to light rail. This did not happen and concessions had to be made to please Edgewood. A walking trail (with playgrounds) and handsome bridge overpasses were added to the overall plans in addition to natural and man made sound barriers (even though Amtrak and CSX passes along the same line???). We now have an extended busway with added features but we on the east end are still envious of the south hills and north shore (under construction).

With rail or busways comes transit oriented development. The east busway is far more beneficial to the TOD of Pittsburgh. Along the busway we have seen life style centers (East Liberty) and housing (Homewood) pop up along the line. We have Target, Wholefoods, Borders (closing), home depot, trader joes, google(bakery square), upmc, giant eagle market district (with condos on top) and many independent retailers pop up from shadyside to East Liberty.

The light rail line is not as far along as the east end, but that will change once Mount Lebanon begins construction along the light rail line.