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See. When you compare the Central part of Atlanta's Metro to the Twin Cities Metro it's not even close. The Five County area of Atlanta is almost twice as dense as Metro Minn-St Paul. Bottom line you have over a million more people living in an area surrounding Atlanta that is 300 square miles less than the corresponding area surrounding Minneapolis. Any way you want to look at that the Core of Metro Atlanta is denser.
I used a source at least for mine, and a definition of "urbanized area"....you're picking the 5 densest counties and comparing 5 counties from MN, but you don't reaize that most of our counties are less than 50%full because they are larger the further west you go. Just work with the census and source data I gave you earlier. It's representative of what an apples-to-apples comparison would be. Things will be different if you get the 2010 numbers, but MN will change too.
I still attest that when compring the urbanized areas of both cities, the Twin Cities are slightly more densely populated, but neither are very dense.
So your argument is that instead of working to improve our nation's urban school districts everyone should rather take the easy way out and just move to the suburbs? I don't yet have children but would have absolutely no qualms with sending them to a public school in a large city. Why, pray tell? Test scores and "hysteria" can't be used as reliable barometers to measure school quality. I went to a public school district that many called "horrible", and guess what? I'm a successful young professional, as are dozens of others from my high school's graduating class. If you, as parents, are committed enough to your child's education, and, more importantly, if the child himself/herself has the desire and drive to succeed, then they can excel at nearly any school, not only the tony vanilla suburban ones where parents gladly pay a premium in property taxes for bragging rights.
How will these urban school districts ever improve if the middle-class refuses to get involved? The misinformation regarding public school quality on this forum in general is atonishing. Any school in Northern Virginia, for example, that people on our forum call "terrible" still ranks more highly than some of the better schools in my hometown, all of which continue to churn out gifted young minds.
Continue to use "good schools" as a crutch to enable families to move to suburban cul-de-sacs, but then don't complain when those people from Acworth, Kennesaw, etc. are clogging your roads in the city in their SUVs.
P.S. The proportion of households with children under the age of 18 in the District continues to rise modestly. Our incumbent mayor, Adrian Fenty, has really taken a hard-line approach to improving the city's schools. I'm noticing I'm dodging more strollers now in DC than I had to even just 1.5 years ago when I moved here.
I know you weren't responding to me, but seriously man, you're not being realistic here. Nobody wants to use their child as a rallying cause for something as important as education. And it goes beyond education to things like peer influence and even safety. Very, very few people are going to put their child's well-being at risk to make such a point, and with good reason.
Now I'm Black and of course know that the vast majority of underperforming urban schools across the country are heavily Black and Latino, and I definitely want to see that change. But once I have children, I'm not going to use them as a cause for activism. It's one thing if a school is making noticeable progress, and as you say some public schools aren't as bad as you make them out to be. But there's a good reason why it's predominantly singles, empty nesters, DINKs, and gays who are the gentrifiers in cities across the nation.
Furthermore, johnatl was simply describing reality. You'll have to question the families that move out to suburbia about how committed they are to certain causes, so the morality of their decisions goes beyond this particular discussion. The fact is that they do it.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by west336
I used a source at least for mine, and a definition of "urbanized area"....you're picking the 5 densest counties and comparing 5 counties from MN, but you don't reaize that most of our counties are less than 50%full because they are larger the further west you go. Just work with the census and source data I gave you earlier. It's representative of what an apples-to-apples comparison would be. Things will be different if you get the 2010 numbers, but MN will change too.
I still attest that when compring the urbanized areas of both cities, the Twin Cities are slightly more densely populated, but neither are very dense.
No, those are the 5 central counties of Metro Atlanta. The 5 of them make up 98% of the Metro Atlanta Urban area.
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
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Ramsey and Hennipen are mostly urbanized, but Scott, Anoka and Washington Counties in MN are not even 50% urbanized.....it's just the way the counties lie around the metro area. That's why we can have up to a 13 county metro because little parts of urbanized areas touch that many counties, and like I said, the counties are larger the further west you go. I'm sticking with Demographia's definition of "urbanized area" and population instead of letting somebody make the numbers work to their favor. You're not lying, I know that, but you aren't accurately representing the truth either.
Probably not so much of a Minnesooooota versus Jawja thing but, North versus South and not for the reasons that you might initially think. Georgia, like quite a few states, probably falls victim to stereotypical images more than most.
The Northern Part of the state is hilly and very, very beautiful. The Southern is more open and graceful with older architectures (Savannah, most historic town in the US).
Minnesota's summers are usually beautiful. Cooler breezes at night, lakes everywhere and some of the bluest skies one could hope for on a sunny day.
I like to think it's more Cold versus Warmer climates. Nothing more, nothing less. If you prefer a clearer demarcation in seasons the North, to include destinations like Minnesota, are for you. If, on the other hand, you don't wish to dig your car out in the winter, then perhaps a place like Georgia is more to your liking.
I"ve lived in both. I can honestly say, there are some very distinctly neat things about each but, for me, Georgia is more desirable. I just don't like being cold. To be sure, our Winter's around Atlanta are cool enough. Some weeks it's downright cold.....BUT, I have never, ever had to dig my car out or, watch it rust out in a few years.
Chuckholes are somewhat of an anomaly down here. No losing of a filling by hitting one down here my friends. The roads, for the most part, are ribbon smoooooth and cars tend to last a very, very long time. Schools? Like everywhere, depends on which district in which County/system you reside.
For us, the better ones tend to be in the suburbs. Graduation rates are higher, less crime and kids tend to come home in one piece. Less ER visits. A bit tongue-in-cheek but, anyone that would defend the contrary is dillusional. While violence can happen in any school, suffice it to say that it will probably have a better chance of happening with kids who are into all sorts of ill shiite in their homes than those who are not? Just a longshot here....just guessing.....it's probably me......sigh.....
As far as things to do? Well, outdoors are big in both.
Culture? It's fun here to just go to some of the more rural towns and jaw jack with the locals. You just can't make this stuff up. If you like Jeff Foxworthy, Larry the Cable Guy, Ron White and Bill Engvall, you will like some of the local flavor that can be found throughout Georgia. Friendly and warm with a sense of self-deprecating humor that makes you laugh from the inside.
Can't speak to the culture of Minnesota but, for me like most of America, if you want "culture", buy Yogurt, the rest is usually hype regardless of where you live. It's right up there with the "Arts". So many people will espouse about their city's arts. And yet, they have never been to a play, symphony, or art museum.
Especially me. The difference? I don't speak to the Arts. Just like the other 90% of America. If given a choice I would rather watch 2 1/2 men, the Simpsons, or some other laughable venue. Saves the drive and gas, can do it from the comfort and privacy of my own home and oddly enough, after working all day, I think that's all I have energy for. What say most of you?
Hmmmmmmmm.........symphony or a good sitcom.....hmmmmmmmm.....decisions decisions....I've tried the symphony...interesting experience....same with plays....and then I wonder why I spent the money....but hey, that's just me.....I'm as deep as a saucer....what do I know???
No, I think if you boil it all down. Most people want a pretty simple life with the least amount of hassles. And for me, I found it down South. It's just an easier more enjoyable pace. I hope you find the same wherever you roam.
Speaking of simple things...I'm watching the movie, Blue Steel, with Ron Silver and Jamie Lee Curtis....can someone get her some hair-color and get her off that Activia commercial? Can we all get a collection going for Jamie? Her body, like a child's mind, it's a terrible thing to waste.
Can we do something for her sagging career? From shapely Jodi Fosterish simple good looks to "Activus Irregularus" (yeah, like that's a real term...)? C'mon folks, if we bailed out mediocre known as GM, can't we do something for Jamie?
I used a source at least for mine, and a definition of "urbanized area"....you're picking the 5 densest counties and comparing 5 counties from MN, but you don't reaize that most of our counties are less than 50%full because they are larger the further west you go. Just work with the census and source data I gave you earlier. It's representative of what an apples-to-apples comparison would be. Things will be different if you get the 2010 numbers, but MN will change too.
I still attest that when compring the urbanized areas of both cities, the Twin Cities are slightly more densely populated, but neither are very dense.
These along with City-Data.com stats are my sources. The figures are from 2006 census to 2010 estimates.
I don't know much about "urbanized area's" and how they are chosen (seems pretty arbitrary and subjective to me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_area) but my method was really simple. By choosing to compare the counties I chose I basically drew a circle around the center of Atlanta that included it's 5 most populous counties. I then drew a circle around the center of Minn-St Paul that included it's 5 most populous and compared the population and area of each circle. The circle around Minn-St Paul was had a smaller population and larger area and thus was less dense. It can't get any simpler than that.
You can argue all day about this area is urbanized or that area isn't but you can't argue against 1,700 square miles surrounding Atlanta's center has more people than 2,100 square miles surrounding Minneapolis- St Pauls center.
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
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They had a larger area because those counties are NOT DENSE.....stick to "urbanized area" and let the professionals take care of the numbers and definitions.
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Boil it Down
