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Before this tree argument gets out of hand let me "nip it in the bud" by pointing out the fact that longleaf pines are native only to south Georgia below the fall line and are mostly invasive in the northern part of the state including Metro Atlanta, where hardwoods like oak, hickory and walnut are the indigenous flora. It was clear-cutting for agricultural purposes in the 18th and 19th centuries and then the abandoning of that land in the 20th century that allowed for pine trees to take root further north, much like kudzu. An undisturbed N.Georgia forest in its natural state is going to be hardwoods, not pines. There will be shortleaf pines under the tree canopy along with other lesser trees, shrubs and flowering plants like honeysuckle and rhodadendron but no towering pine forests like you hav in the sandy plains along the coast. btw -- live oaks, spanish moss nor palm trees will grow in the atlanta region either. those stereotypical "southen" plants are native and hearty only with about 50 miles of the coastm
actually, you will find a few palms growing in atlanta (they were planted i'm sure). and i'm pretty sure you can find some live oaks as well
and aren't the loblolly, shortleaf, and slash pine all native to the atlanta area? if you have huge pine forests in the area
Location: Metro Atlanta (Sandy Springs), by way of Macon, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Cann
It blows my mind Georgia is winning this poll. Minnesota PWNS Georgia in every category.
Plus, my state produces people like Bob Dylan and Prince, while Georgia produces, um, well people that drink moonshine and love their cousins.
This poll should be a no brainer. But, you silly Georgians will never understand how bad your state sucks compared to mine
James Brown, Otis Redding, Little Richard, Gladys Knight, Ray Charles, The Allman Bros, R.E.M., The B-52s, Travis Kitt, Trisha Yearwood, Alan Jackson, Ludacris, Outkast, T.I., Lloyd, Monica, Usher, TLC, etc.
and several other people I'm not going to take the time to name, do you really want to compare musical success of Georgia and Minnesota???
See. When you compare the Central part of Atlanta's Metro to the Twin Cities Metro it's not even close. The Five County area of Atlanta is almost twice as dense as Metro Minn-St Paul. Bottom line you have over a million more people living in an area surrounding Atlanta that is 300 square miles less than the corresponding area surrounding Minneapolis. Any way you want to look at that the Core of Metro Atlanta is denser.
Last edited by Galounger; 08-29-2010 at 10:26 AM..
This poll was a very tough cookie for me, and I'd like to thank the OP for starting it.
As someone well-versed in urban planning let me just say that contrary to what the MN "homers" may think, Greater Atlanta has seen a tremendous amount of infill between 2000-2010, so I do believe in the figures that have been posted by the GA "homers". Also, just going by what I've seen zooming around for both the Twin Cities and Atlanta for hours using online satellite imagery I can safely assure you that BOTH metro areas ought to be ashamed of themselves for having let their urban sprawl rise to such epidemic levels. You don't have to venture far from the urban core of either metro area to see nothing but miles upon miles of cul-de-sacs lined by ostentatious McMansions, massive surface parking lots, strip malls, big-box stores, etc.
I like the city proper of Atlanta, but I really don't like how instead of focusing efforts to build one massive central business district it has instead decided to focus on building several "edge cities" WITHIN the city proper itself (Buckhead, Midtown, Downtown, and God knows whatever others may eventually spring up). With that being said while Minneapolis and St. Paul each have a very compact and well-defined downtown area that transitions very nicely to surrounding dense residential neighborhoods there is also a great deal of suburbanites in the Twin Cities who look down upon those who live in the city when, in reality, it should be the other way around. In terms of which CITY I like better I'd have to vote for Minneapolis over Atlanta because I appreciate the historic architecture, extensive system of lakes and parks, and very bikeable/walkable/sustainable nature of the "Mini Apple" over "Hotlanta." St. Paul certainly isn't a slouch, either, but it is definitely in need of TLC. As far as other cities are concerned I like Savannah, GA better than many medium-sized cities in Minnesota, but I like Duluth, MN better than many medium-sized cities in Georgia, so I suppose it's a draw. I do not like Macon, GA. I also do not like Rochester, MN. I like Rome, GA and Athens, GA. I do NOT like Columbus, GA or Valdosta, GA. I like Mankato, MN. I don't like Moorhead, MN. Therefore in terms of the urban built environment it would largely be a "draw" in my eyes if I didn't have that slight "edge" for Minneapolis (city proper) over Atlanta (city proper).
In terms of weather both states are harsh for roughly 1/3 of the year. As an avid distance runner I'd hate to have to run only at very inopportune times because of the high humidity and relatively poor air quality in Metro Atlanta as compared to the Twin Cities; however, I think the "skyway" systems in both Downtown Minneapolis and Downtown St. Paul, both of which are designed to give pedestrians heated corridors to navigate their downtowns in winter, do a big disservice in limiting foot traffic in the warmer months, which cuts down on the vibrancy that the Twin Cities' downtowns could have with more foot traffic. The way I see it, though, is that if it's 0 degrees outside I can always bundle up. If it's 95 with a heat index of 105 there's nothing I can do to find comfort once I'm naked and sweating like a hog.
In terms of "coastal" beauty I'll also give the nod to Minnesota. The "Arrowhead" of Minnesota, especially in and around Grand Marais, is still relatively untouched, unspoiled, and undiscovered. On the other hand, most of the GA coast between Savannah and Brunswick is a lot "busier." Both have their strong selling points, but the tranquility of the Lake Superior shoreline trumps the crowding of the GA beaches.
Politically as a gay person I'd wither and die in a "red" state, so MN once again triumphs over GA in that regard, too (although in an odd sense Atlanta supposedly has the nation's third-highest LGBT population, which confuses me).
Both states' major cities are relatively isolated from other primary places of interest. Chicago is a good hike from the Twin Cities. Atlanta isn't terribly far from Chattanooga, Charlotte, Columbia, Jacksonville, Knoxville, Huntsville, or Nashville, but I wouldn't really qualify any of those cities as being a big "tourist getaway draw". Sorry, Charlotte boosters, your city ain't "all that." That's a big fat "epic fail" in my book, so neither place scores on that one in my eyes.
It blows my mind Georgia is winning this poll. Minnesota PWNS Georgia in every category.
Plus, my state produces people like Bob Dylan and Prince, while Georgia produces, um, well people that drink moonshine and love their cousins.
This poll should be a no brainer. But, you silly Georgians will never understand how bad your state sucks compared to mine
Never been to Georgia huh? I've been all over MN. It is a very nice state. Perhaps some of the people aren't that great though? Have you been drinking? Keep this civil for Christ's sake.
Both states' major cities are relatively isolated from other primary places of interest. Chicago is a good hike from the Twin Cities. Atlanta isn't terribly far from Chattanooga, Charlotte, Columbia, Jacksonville, Knoxville, Huntsville, or Nashville, but I wouldn't really qualify any of those cities as being a big "tourist getaway draw". Sorry, Charlotte boosters, your city ain't "all that." That's a big fat "epic fail" in my book, so neither place scores on that one in my eyes.
Okay, so one GA member said they appreciated my relatively balanced analysis until I closed with this gut-kicking conclusion. I meant to reciprocrate the reputation boost but accidentally gave it to another GA member with a very similar user name (hence why that person will probably be scratching their heads when they see it! LOL!)
Let me clarify things a bit. Charlotte, while nice, is very "hyped" in my opinion by some on this forum pushing an agenda. Back in 2006 and 2007 many might remember me, the former "SWB", as being a total "homer" for Scranton, PA in the same sense than Omaha was being overhyped by another member not long ago. Both of us were wrong to have been so clouded by hometown pride to have exploded each city's image far beyond its context. I've been to Charlotte before. It's not the "Shangri-La" that so many "boosters" on here pound their chests about, which is why I posted that subsersive "pot-shot" to drag them down a peg or two when I saw the opportunity to do so. Many of the NC forum people on here tend to think their state is better than everywhere else, and I really never will see justification for that. North Carolina is a nice state, but I think California offers the most diversity---coastal bluffs to major cities to deserts to snow-capped mountains---of any other state.
I notice a lot of forum members in GA, NC, TX, etc. constantly calling those of us in the North "haters." We're not. We're just tired of the constant boosterism at our expense.
Okay, so one GA member said they appreciated my relatively balanced analysis until I closed with this gut-kicking conclusion. I meant to reciprocrate the reputation boost but accidentally gave it to another GA member with a very similar user name (hence why that person will probably be scratching their heads when they see it! LOL!)
Let me clarify things a bit. Charlotte, while nice, is very "hyped" in my opinion by some on this forum pushing an agenda. Back in 2006 and 2007 many might remember me, the former "SWB", as being a total "homer" for Scranton, PA in the same sense than Omaha was being overhyped by another member not long ago. Both of us were wrong to have been so clouded by hometown pride to have exploded each city's image far beyond its context. I've been to Charlotte before. It's not the "Shangri-La" that so many "boosters" on here pound their chests about, which is why I posted that subsersive "pot-shot" to drag them down a peg or two when I saw the opportunity to do so. Many of the NC forum people on here tend to think their state is better than everywhere else, and I really never will see justification for that. North Carolina is a nice state, but I think California offers the most diversity---coastal bluffs to major cities to deserts to snow-capped mountains---of any other state.
I notice a lot of forum members in GA, NC, TX, etc. constantly calling those of us in the North "haters." We're not. We're just tired of the constant boosterism at our expense.
You may have heard the expression if Atlanta boosters could suck as hard as they blow Atlanta would have a beach.
You commented on the Metro's quick loss of urbanity as you venture out looking at google earth. However, you may be surprised if you visited in person. Dekalb county is almost as densely populated as your home county in VA. And if it continues to grow as it has been it should be more dense before long. Also as you mentioned it has one of the highest Gay populations in America. Don't be so fast to stereotype based on political color. Although Georgia is a Red State it's large cities are almost all blue especially Atlanta.
Finally, you know Chic-fil-a is based in Georgia right? That alone should sway you.
What RestonRunner86 fails to realize is that he DOES live in a pretty Red State. He also lives in the very midst of some of the most mind-numbing sprawl that exists in this country.
I said this in another thread the other day, but it bears repeating. People that live in the sprawl surrounding D.C. have NO right to preach to anyone about sprawl. Period.
RestonRunner86, I'm shocked that you've heard of Mankato! There are a lot of people that have never even heard of, much less have been to, Mankato, Minnesota. Even people in MN think it's some little nothing town, and it really isn't. Mankato rocks.
As far as Kid Cann's posts -- he was being sarcastic. Clearly tongue in cheek. Don't take it too personally.
The whole "sprawl" thing: since I see density as a cancer, I'm happy that the Twin Cities sprawl a lot (even though I don't live in the Cities). If the Cities were as dense as, say, NYC, it would totally ruin the area, I think. I've also been to the Atlanta area, and it seems denser than the Cities, overall. Places like Duluth (GA, not MN) and Lawrenceville are much denser than equivalent suburbs in Minnesota, like Plymouth and White Bear Lake.
Also, I love outstate Minnesota (I live there), but outstate Georgia is SCARY to me! Maybe it's because I'm a "yankee," but I can feel the stares on me every time I go down there. I remember stopping at a gas station in Cordele, GA about ten years ago (on the way to Florida), and it was like stepping into another world.
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