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Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,993,141 times
Reputation: 7333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade
Those google images proves my point. DC and Atlanta suburbs are very similar and they are on bigger lots than Houston's suburbs. You have to understand that the more Western you go in this country, the denser suburban areas will be. That's why Phoenix is denser than both Houston and Atlanta and why Los Angeles is the densest area in the nation.
And why density, population or building, isn't the end all be all of what it means to be "urban"...
And why density, population or building, isn't the end all be all of what it means to be "urban"...
It never really was especially building or population. Density helps the most over those three but urbanity is much more than just density. Example: Miami. Very dense. But the majority of the area, including the city of Miami, is suburban but Miami escapes the thrashing that Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, Phoenix and other cities get.
That however seems to be the only thing you are basing it over (aesthetics).Let's have a little exercise.
Which of the following, in your opinion, is more urban?
Neighborhood A
4.8 square miles
Population density 2781 people per square mile
Neighborhood B
5.1 square miles
Population density 7663
Now, I'm not a person who ascribes to population and housing density being the be all, end all of how "urban" a place is, but given that you are basing your above quoted post on how densely pack the buildings are, which of the two neighborhoods above in your opinion based on that data are more urban?
I assure you that I went through great lengths to make this a fair comparison.
That's not the point. The point is that this urban feel is created by the density of the buildings therefore creating the feeling that Atlanta is suburban to a lot of people. As spade said though, its only one component of this urban feeling. However, this is the component Atlanta most lacks.
As for your post, the most densely populated in the US: Friendship Village, Maryland. Now you suppose this is the most urban place in the US?
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,993,141 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade
It never really was especially building or population. Density helps the most over those three but urbanity is much more than just density. Example: Miami. Very dense. But the majority of the area, including the city of Miami, is suburban but Miami escapes the thrashing that Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, Phoenix and other cities get.
Exactly. Population and building density are an essential component of "urbanity" but just a component...
Atlantans want to be an urban city so badly. I don't understand why they just don't drop it, they are not going to convince anyone that lives or has visited a classic urban city.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,993,141 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billiam
That's not the point. The point is that this urban feel is created by the density of the buildings therefore creating the feeling that Atlanta is suburban to a lot of people.
Well it is the point because it was the one you made. I, and others, argued that while Cincinnati is indeed urban, the only reason why people are saying that Atlanta is "suburban" in relation is merely by looks.
Now, going to the point you clearly want to avoid because it destroys your argument I compared the two neighborhoods that (to the best of my knowledge) are agreed to be the most urban neighbhoods in both cities:
Northside Cincinnati (population 13349) and Midtown Atlanta (population 39,081).
Both are about the same physical size, with an advantage to Northside as it is smaller than Midtown. Both are known as the center of the gay community in each city (a point I only bring up since being a gayborhood is about as unsuburban as you can get).
But here is where things diverge. The point you made about why Cincinnati was supposedly more urban than Atlanta was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billiam
Its mostly dealing with the density of buildings (as in how densely packed they are). Atlanta seems to fall short.
Now doesn't stand to reason that if Midtown is larger in size than Northside by only a mere 0.3 square miles, yet has 3 times as many people, that it's building density would be higher than Northside's to accommodate it's residents? Simple deduction would tell you that.
But since people like pretty pictures and stuff, let's do this visually.
Buildings in Midtown Atlanta:
Flickr: Rothbard's Photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rothbard/ - broken link)
Flickr: Kay Gaensler's Photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gaensler - broken link)
(Before anyone says "but that's a skyline shot" do know that only three buildings in that picture are office towers. The rest are residential highrise condos.)
Now, as you can see, two things emerge:
Northside Cincinnati is urban
Midtown Atlanta is urban
What seems to be happening is that people prefer the type of buildings you find in Northside Cincinnati (and other neighborhoods) and there is nothing wrong with that nor is it what I am arguing against.
What I am arguing against is the notion that the City of Atlanta is:
-Mostly suburban
-Those parts that are urban, aren't really urban
-And no area that is urban in Atlanta can possibly match anything in Cincinnati
Just comparing the two very best urban neighborhood side by side dispels both of those myths.
Basically, I'm not saying Cincinnati isn't urban, I'm saying that Atlanta is urban too...just a different kind of urban than Cincinnati.
But, let's see how this is spun next...
Last edited by waronxmas; 10-07-2010 at 03:45 PM..
Reason: Fixed for clarity
It's because they regret their decision to live in that sh*t hole of a city that is "hotlanta". I wish someone would just nuke that place because there is nothing good about it and it only pollutes the environment with its insane traffic.
Everyone be sure to complain to the mods about this member's post. This kind of trash isn't welcome and does not serve the purpose of city-data.
Well it is the point because it was the one you made. I, and others, argued that while Cincinnati is indeed urban, the only reason why people are saying that Atlanta is "suburban" in relation is merely by looks.
Now, going to the point you clearly want to avoid because it destroys your argument I compared the two neighborhoods that (to the best of my knowledge) are agreed to be the most urban neighbhoods in both cities:
Northside Cincinnati (population 13349) and Midtown Atlanta (population 39,081).
Both are about the same physical size, with an advantage to Northside as it is smaller than Midtown. Both are known as the center of the gay community in each city (a point I only bring up since being a gayborhood is about as unsuburban as you can get).
But here is where things diverge. The point you made about why Cincinnati was supposedly more urban than Atlanta was:
Now doesn't stand to reason that if Midtown is larger in size than Northside by only a mere 0.3 square miles, yet has 3 times as many people, that it's building density would be higher than Northside's to accommodate it's residents? Simple deduction would tell you that.
But since people like pretty pictures and stuff, let's do this visually.
Flickr: Kay Gaensler's Photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gaensler - broken link)
(Before anyone says "but that's a skyline shot" do know that all but three buildings in that picture are office towers. The rest residential highrise condos.)
Now, as you can see, two things emerge:
Northside Cincinnati is urban
Midtown Atlanta is urban
What seems to be happening is that people prefer the type of buildings you find in Northside Cincinnati (and other neighborhoods) and there is nothing wrong with that nor is it what I am arguing against.
What I am arguing against is the notion that the City of Atlanta is:
-Mostly suburban
-Those parts that are urban, aren't really urban
-And no area that is urban in Atlanta can possibly match anything in Cincinnati
Just comparing the two very best urban neighborhood side by side dispels both of those myths.
Basically, I'm not saying Cincinnati isn't urban, I'm saying that Atlanta is urban too...just a different kind of urban than Cincinnati.
But, let's see how this is spun next...
Excellent post!
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Very dense. But the majority of the area, including the city of Miami, is suburban but Miami escapes the thrashing that Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, Phoenix and other cities get.
