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This is ridiculous. I was just in Dallas and Uptown Dallas doesn't even compare to Midtown Atlanta when it comes to walkability(lawns in front of buildings and a general lack of mixed used). Houston has zero neighborhoods that compare to Midtown Atlanta.
Houston/Dallas might be denser on paper, but Atlanta is definitely easier to walk in than both of those cities due to it's smaller width of streets, larger sidewalks, and more cohesive urban core.
I said in regards to density ALONE, just to point out that all southern cities cannot be painted with such a broad brush.
Too many people on this website confuse walkability for urban. While I want out of my big city to be walkable, it's not the only consideration. There are plenty of small towns (especially in Europe) which are highly walkable but not urban (aka big city).
In Atlanta I just have more big city amenities at my fingertips, but without the walkability. Portland never felt like a big city, or even a medium sized city to me, that's because it's not. It's a small city.
I think many people here are confused but not for the reasons you stated.
The word "urban" is not used exclusively for big cities. It refers to the qualities of any city. Portland is more urban, but Atlanta is more cosmopolitan.
Houston and Dallas are clearly more dense than Atlanta, overall. They also have better grids and will be easier to urbanize. That being said, Atlanta has a few other things going for it, a head start, quite possibly a more progressive city government, and a higher education system right in the city that makes a world of difference and puts Atlanta on the map in a way Houston/Dallas can't do for themselves. My opinions from short visits to Dallas and Houston are irrelevant to this thread. It's not always about density and design alone, the people are also a big part of it.
Portland smokes all three of these cities no matter how much smaller it is from a traditional urbanity point of view. Portland is genuinely impressive and punches above its weight in these matters, maybe not economically, but in other ways. It's a small city I could see myself living in. If I want a large city, Atlanta (nor Dallas/Houston) are certainly not what I'm looking for.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARrocket
Maybe people are poorer in Atlanta and can't afford cars? Maybe Atlanta has a higher unemployment rate, so those people don't have anywhere to go? Not saying this is true, just speculating. It's not as black and white as you're making it seem to be.
What difference would it make? Wouldn't it be a positive for a city to allow poorer individuals that cannot afford a car good transit access versus a yuppie who's going without a car to be cool?
If we're comparing what Atlanta is doing and what Portland is doing, I prefer what Portland is doing. And yes, Portland was already smaller and more tight knit, but it's also still urbanizing rapidly, as well. Atlanta new urbanism is that: new urbanism (the south is urbanizing in much the same way across all the cities, but I just expect better from a city that anchors a region of 5-7 million people, which is why I think the Atlantas/Dallas's/Houstons are such disappointments). I'm not so much a fan, and I think it will take a long time to really get there. And then aesthetically, just not my style - the rents aren't really high enough to support true quality design at the building level. That makes a difference to me.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by new urbanism (because I don't think you're really referring to self-contained mega developments), but if you're referring to contemporary TOD in whole or in part, then that's definitely Portland all day; although I've not yet visited, Portland strikes me as excelling in that area as opposed to being a classically urban city like Baltimore or Cincinnati.
Houston and Dallas are clearly more dense than Atlanta, overall.
Population Density
Atlanta: 3360 per square mile
Dallas: 3645 per square mile
Houston: 3662 per square mile
Atlanta is the least dense of the three but neither Dallas or Houston are significantly more dense. However Atlanta's densest neighborhoods are much denser than Houston's densest neighborhoods.
Population Density
Atlanta: 3360 per square mile
Dallas: 3645 per square mile
Houston: 3662 per square mile
Atlanta is the least dense of the three but neither Dallas or Houston are significantly more dense. However Atlanta's densest neighborhoods are much denser than Houston's densest neighborhoods.
When this thread was created I would have said that Portland and Atlanta were fairly even in the area of urban spaces, with Portland having a pretty large head start where Atlanta only began to concentrate on building/connecting urban districts about 20 years ago or so. But in 2016 I feel like Atlanta has pulled ahead with massive improvements in transit, bike lanes, road diets, infill, TOD and new urbanist districts, and beginning to connect the main urban districts with more urban streets and mixed-use structures. Intown/urban Atlanta is a very different place than it was a few years back...I feel many of these comments are judging past Atlanta and not 2016 Atlanta - which deserves A LOT of credit for improvement and heading in the right direction.
People tend to write Atlanta off when discussing urbanity, and those people really need to familiarize themselves with today's Atlanta and ignore everything they've heard in the past. Even the suburbs have been creating urban centers...while several of them already existed and have improved tremendously and are connected by MARTA (the inner suburbs), the sprawliest suburbs have created urban centers around the traditional historic downtowns that are giving suburbanites a more urban living option. But that is neither here nor there since we're talking about these two cities within the city limits...they are more similar than many people realize, but I do feel Atlanta pulling ahead at this point.
How about Houston's inner loop compared to Atlanta's inner loop (Perimeter)? I'm not sure it's a fair comparison to compare Atlanta city-limits to Houston's inner loop, and I don't know the size of the inner loop or inside of the Perimeter but they sound more comparable.
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