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with combinations the DMV is about 435 Billion and the bay at 360 Billion (the size of Philly (gasp) with Trenton added which is far closer than SJ to SF) and Chicago is at 418 Billion and LA with Riverside is at 675 Billion; SF is way behind LA on par with Philly and behind the DMV and Chicago
OK, let's do this right. The SF Bay Area has a lot of other nodes that you just aren't adding.
Napa, CA Metro Area 6,809
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA Metro Area 257,761
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA Metro Area 101,926
Santa Cruz-Watsonville, CA Metro Area 12,612
Santa Rosa-Petaluma, CA Metro Area 21,465
Vallejo-Fairfield, CA Metro Area 16,153
The Bay Area claiming #2 may be a stretch, but #3 is not. That's all I'm saying.
Fair enough with me. However you cant possibly consider it a deadbeat spot, like someone else said earlier LA, CHI, SF, and DC can switch up anytime all really close IMO. An argument can be made for any of these cities for #3 including LA if you want to consider finance a icebreaker
OK, let's do this right. SF has a lot of other nodes that you just aren't adding.
Napa, CA Metro Area 6,809
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA Metro Area 257,761
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA Metro Area 101,926
Santa Cruz-Watsonville, CA Metro Area 12,612
Santa Rosa-Petaluma, CA Metro Area 21,465
Vallejo-Fairfield, CA Metro Area 16,153
Grand Total: $416.726 Billion
yeah over what 100+ miles; come on, with that distance I can add the NYC income to Philly; they are far closer than the expanse you add as are DC and Baltimore, like 30 miles (DC and Chicago are way more centric which also factors)
Hell I dont need NYC to beat that number by adding Allentown/Beth/Reading/Vineland/AC etc with Philly in less space than all you add. The Bay is impressive but to equal these numbers you are stretching the bounds a bit here - CSA is a little unruly really, especially areas that are two hours apart
yeah over what 100+ miles; come on, with that distance I can add the NYC income to Philly; they are far closer than the expanse you add as are DC and Baltimore, like 30 miles (DC and Chicago are way more centric which also factors)
Hell I dont need NYC to beat that number by adding Allentown/Beth/Reading/Vineland/AC etc with Philly in less space than all you add. The Bay is impressive but to equal these numbers you are stretching the bounds a bit here - CSA is a little unruly really, especially areas that are two hours apart
why not throw in Sacramento while you are at it
Ok, so I had to check mileage for myself, I figured you skewed it a bit. Not bad though. One of the differences in California is that the major metros are broken up by water and mountains, so that 100 mile expanse is very linear. Much like South Florida where they are backed up to the everglades.
Ok so.......
DC to Baltimore - 40.66 miles
SF to SJ - 48.47
NYC to Philly - 94.18 miles
SJ to Napa - 84.35
SJ to Santa Rosa - 100.47
SF to Sacramento - 88
SF to Stockton - 83
The development in SF/Bay is very linear and in waves separated by moutains and water. Even if SF/SJ/Sac/Stkn become a CSA one day, it wont be solid it will be linear.
Ok, so I had to check mileage for myself, I figured you skewed it a bit. Not bad though. One of the differences in California is that the major metros are broken up by water and mountains, so that 100 mile expanse is very linear. Much like South Florida where they are backed up to the everglades.
Ok so.......
DC to Baltimore - 40.66 miles
SF to SJ - 48.47
NYC to Philly - 94.18 miles
SJ to Napa - 84.35
SJ to Santa Rosa - 100.47
SF to Sacramento - 88
SF to Stockton - 83
The development in SF/Bay is very linear and in waves separated by moutains and water. Even if SF/SJ/Sac/Stkn become a CSA one day, it wont be solid it will be linear.
actually a technical differance, the closest border and NYC and philly are only 45 miles; this I have proven repeatedly, the 94 is driving miles from City Hall to Midtown; more like 74 on a straight shot
One thing to remember is that in the 45/74 miles between the actual borders of Phildelphia and NYC lies more people than the whole population of the bay area. There is basically a metro the size of the Bay population that lies in those 45 miles between the actual borders of the two cities and that includes none of the city populations; there really is a differance; honestly I agree that combining NYC and Philly is equally absurd but there is far more concentrated continuity in this space than lies in the land between Santa Rosa and SJ - I agree that area between SJ and SF is highly connected and deserves to be lumped together
Snata Rosa is pushing the limits a bit
Last edited by kidphilly; 03-04-2011 at 01:34 PM..
actually a technical differance, the closest border and NYC and philly are only 45 miles; this I have proven repeatedly, the 94 is driving miles from City Hall to Midtown; more like 74 on a straight shot
One thing to remember is that in the 45 miles between the actual borders of Phildelphia and NYC lies more people than the whole population of the bay area. There is basically a metro the size of the Bay population that lies in those 45 miles between the actual borders of the two cities and that includes none of the city populations; there really is a differance; honestly I agree that combining NYC and Philly is equally absurd but there is far more concentrated continuity in this space than lies in the land between Santa Rosa and SJ - I agree that area between SJ and SF is highly connected and deserves to be lumped together
Snata Rosa is pushing the limits a bit
Probably a fairer reprentation of the above would be to imagine putting NYC just above SF and Philly just south of the SJ downtown - that is really the population that lives in the same space and connected and are the parts of NJ and PA between NYC and Philly - this is not a wild cliam there truly is that population that sits in between
though i do agree that the water and mountains factor far more in the bay; that does not diminish the distance though
yeah over what 100+ miles; come on, with that distance I can add the NYC income to Philly; they are far closer than the expanse you add as are DC and Baltimore, like 30 miles (DC and Chicago are way more centric which also factors)
Hell I dont need NYC to beat that number by adding Allentown/Beth/Reading/Vineland/AC etc with Philly in less space than all you add.
Except there is actually is a CSA out here whereas back there, there's a snowballs chance in Hades that will ever happen.
Actually SF-Sac are closer commuterwise to being combined that is NY and Philly-and even then, its not close.
Boy, you guys just cannot let go of this issue can you? As if its personally SFs fault that the OMB made boundaries the way it did.
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The Bay is impressive but to equal these numbers you are stretching the bounds a bit here - CSA is a little unruly really, especially areas that are two hours apart
How is that any different from New Haven to Newark or Poughkeepsie to the Hamptons?
Oh, I know, their common bond is New York City...just like Santa Rosa and San Jose share a common bond in San Francisco.
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why not throw in Sacramento while you are at it
I would love to except the difference between SF and Philly is that SF would still the principal city in a combination of SF-Sac whereas Philly would be demoted to a distant second fiddle and I dont know how if many of you would be able to deal with that.
Because when we get down to the business of CSAs, distance becomes irregular and it becomes a question of 'sphere of influence' as defined by connectivity created by commuter patterns and the general sense of regionalism by the areas in question and the difference between SF and Philly is that whether we're talking 100 miles out or hell, even 200 miles out-San Francisco is the principal city, meanwhile Philadelphia's influence probably doesnt even reach as far as you see from the top of your tallest skyscraper until somewhere in the middle of Jersey when you hit the brick wall also known as New York.
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Originally Posted by Rhymes With Best Coast
However, I wanted point out the double standard that is applied to SF whenever mentioned along the likes of Chicago and DC, when all along they have similar economic #s. The Bay Area claiming #2 may be a stretch, but #3 is not. That's all I'm saying.
There is a huge double standard here but who the hell cares cause the numbers speak for themselves.
The Bay Area, Chicagoland and DC-Baltimore have similarly sized economies....there is no rebuttal to that.
[quote=18Montclair;18136384]Except there is actually is a CSA out here whereas back there, there's a snowballs chance in Hades that will ever happen.
Actually SF-Sac are closer commuterwise to being combined that is NY and Philly-and even then, its not close.
[quote]
You did see that the Census combined the UAs of Philly and NYC; actually there is thread out today with the reference
Not only that I wont belabor the mercer county thing; but in 2000 the differnce in Philly and NYC being one CSA back in 2000 was 800 (yes that is right 800 commuters) out of the collective 30+ million
and NYC to Philly is only 45 miles at their closest point and developed so similar to the development between Sac and SF - come on Montclaire; maybe i should post on Facebook so you can understand
and what is the difference between New haven and Newark; well one is extremely developed straight through and the other; well pretty contryside but not exactly uber developed
You did see that the Census combined the UAs of Philly and NYC; actually there is thread out today with the reference
And that has absolutely ZERO bearing on what constitutes a Combined Statistical Area. Apples and Oranges.
You do know that rankings outside of the US have been combining NY and Philly as far as urban areas for years dont you? There's a german ranking that's been doing to for at least a decade.
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Not only that I wont belabor the mercer county thing; but in 2000 the differnce in Philly and NYC being one CSA back in 2000 was 800 (yes that is right 800 commuters) out of the collective 30+ million
And this issue is not my problem. Its between you and the OMB.
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NYC to Philly is only 45 miles at their closest point and developed so similar to the development between Sac and SF.
That's irrelevent in the context of CSAs.
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and what is the difference between New haven and Newark; well one is extremely developed straight through and the other; well pretty contryside but not exactly uber developed
Ah! Just like Santa Rosa and San Jose.
And yet New Haven and Newark despite being so far apart and seemingly totally unrelated are still part of a single CSA because they are both connected to New York.
I dont know why NY gets a free pass by you to have such far reaching borders but SF isnt.
You did see that the Census combined the UAs of Philly and NYC; actually there is thread out today with the reference
Not only that I wont belabor the mercer county thing; but in 2000 the differnce in Philly and NYC being one CSA back in 2000 was 800 (yes that is right 800 commuters) out of the collective 30+ million
and NYC to Philly is only 45 miles at their closest point and developed so similar to the development between Sac and SF - come on Montclaire; maybe i should post on Facebook so you can understand
and what is the difference between New haven and Newark; well one is extremely developed straight through and the other; well pretty contryside but not exactly uber developed
Provide evidence that the borders of NYC and Philly are only 45 miles apart, and that more than 7.5 million people (~the Bay Area's population) live between those borders.
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