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I tend to think of two different groups of states in the South -- the kind of "new South" states like North Carolina, Virginia, Texas, Georgia, and Florida. And then there are the "Deep South" states like Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Arkansas.
I think what colors many people's perception of the "South" are how Southern states (especially "Deep South" states) do in virtually any rankings of education, health, income, environment, etc. etc. To be fair, some "non-Southern"/Southern-adjacent states are in these rankings as well (such as West Virginia, Missouri and Oklahoma), but these lists are dominated by Southern states.
These lists and rankings paint the picture of an unhealthy, uneducated, poor region, and I think that it is unfair to states like North Carolina to be lumped in with Mississippi just because both are in the "South". Just as I'm sure Utah does not appreciate being lumped in with California because both are in the "West".
10 Most Obese States
1. Mississippi
2. Louisiana
3. Tennessee
4. Kentucky
5. Oklahoma
6. West Virginia
7. Alabama
8. Arkansas
9. Missouri
10. TIE: Michigan and South Dakota
Highest Smoking Rates
1 (t). Kentucky
1 (t). West Virginia
3. Oklahoma
4. Mississippi
5(t). Indiana
5(t). Missouri
7. Alabama
8. Louisiana
9. Nevada
10. Tennessee U.S. Smoking Rates by State - US News and World Report
The bottom 10 poorest states
Rank State Median Income
1 Mississippi $35,693
2 Arkansas $37,987
3 West Virginia $39,170
4 Tennessee $40,034
5 South Carolina $41,548
6 Montana $41,587
7 Kentucky $41,828
8 Alabama $42,144
9 North Carolina $42,337
10 Louisiana $42,423 http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/16/news/economy/Americas_wealthiest_states/index.htm
State Outlay to Tax Ratio Rank
(How much each state gets back in federal taxes for every $1 they contribute)
1. New Mexico $2.03
2. Mississippi $2.02
3. Alaska $1.84
4. Louisiana $1.78
5. West Virginia $1.76
6. North Dakota $1.68
7. Alabama $1.66
8. South Dakota $1.53
9. Kentucky $1.51
10. Virginia $1.51 Donor States and Welfare states - Picture This!
Another aspect related to development was the railroads after the canals and waterways. Today many sunbelt cities are exploding because of the large highway infrastructure - people foolw the jobs and with the momentum of jobs to the better highwayed Sunbelt cities the popultion momentum has significantly shifted.
This is a gross generalization but it makes you think what will be the next driver and what areas will see the largest growth benefit from this
Well, that is something I failed to mention. Railroads carried immigrants to cities further away, such as Cleveland, Pittsburgh,etc.
I live in the sun belt. What you just said probably explains why Atlanta is one of the most dangerous cities for cycling.
Well, that is something I failed to mention. Railroads carried immigrants to cities further away, such as Cleveland, Pittsburgh,etc.
I live in the sun belt. What you just said probably explains why Atlanta is one of the most dangerous cities for cycling.
Yes and also are what helped grow places like NYC and Philly with the rail heads, manufacturing, and ports (remember Phillys port is still one of the largest in country and nearly 2/3rds the size of NYC and at the time were monsters) and Chicago as the distribution and commerce center.
Things like the Pennsylvania Railroad and Reading Railroad are two of the more instrumental companies that allowed for the mass industrialization of the America. It is interesting to look at transportation developments and how the influenced the way people migrated and settled.
No one predicted truly the next shift in this dynamic and many times never saw them coming - will be interesting what the next will be; we are probably due for another paradigm shift so to speak
philly_2011, i sort of skimmed your response and saw that you said we think the civil war wasn't about slavery. pardon me if i "missed your point" but that was way too long to read. as has been said over and over again, there's no doubt slavery played a major role in the civil war. but the fact of the matter is that the north had no constitutional right in stepping in. what i'm trying to dispel is the falsehoods that 1) the south was wrong and the north was right 2) all slave owners were evil white men and all slaves were victimized blacks 3) the north were freedom fighters who didn't profit off of slavery 4) the north didn't have slaves 5) and the falsehood that the south got "crushed" in the war. the south didn't get crushed at all. the south had 1/2 the soldiers the north had, and the north lost MORE soldiers in the war. the south kicked #$$, but we lost because the north had a larger economy at that time.
No one predicted truly the next shift in this dynamic and many times never saw them coming - will be interesting what the next will be; we are probably due for another paradigm shift so to speak
It will be interesting. I would look to see how the ever-increasing price of energy impacts cities that sprawl and rely on air-conditoning and how reductions in the availability of water will impact the future those cities located in the desert without their own supply. I suspect in the near term, there will be little impact. As such resources only become more precious over the long run, however, something will need to change - whether it's a regional shift, or a shift in how those heavy resource-dependent cities function or more likely a bit of each.
philly_2011, i sort of skimmed your response and saw that you said we think the civil war wasn't about slavery. pardon me if i "missed your point" but that was way too long to read.
Pardon me, but this is the problem with your posts. It's been pretty clear you're not reading anything - just reacting to what you imagine is being said.
I may not agree with much of what you've put forth so far, but I've at least read it before deciding whether to respond. Might I suggest you go back to the OP and read everything in the thread before you make another post? The south may or may not get any more respect as a result, but your posts will.
but the fact of the matter is that the north had no constitutional right in stepping in. what i'm trying to dispel is the falsehoods that 1) the south was wrong and the north was right
You are interchanging "legal" with "morally correct". The North may not have been "legally" correct, but they were morally justified in fighting against slavery.
I suppose you think the Colonists in 1776 should not have rebelled against Great Britain because it was "illegal"? They should not have thrown the tea in the harbor etc etc?
I tend to think of two different groups of states in the South -- the kind of "new South" states like North Carolina, Virginia, Texas, Georgia, and Florida. And then there are the "Deep South" states like Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Arkansas.
I think what colors many people's perception of the "South" are how Southern states (especially "Deep South" states) do in virtually any rankings of education, health, income, environment, etc. etc. To be fair, some "non-Southern"/Southern-adjacent states are in these rankings as well (such as West Virginia, Missouri and Oklahoma), but these lists are dominated by Southern states.
These lists and rankings paint the picture of an unhealthy, uneducated, poor region, and I think that it is unfair to states like North Carolina to be lumped in with Mississippi just because both are in the "South". Just as I'm sure Utah does not appreciate being lumped in with California because both are in the "West".
10 Most Obese States
1. Mississippi
2. Louisiana
3. Tennessee
4. Kentucky
5. Oklahoma
6. West Virginia
7. Alabama
8. Arkansas
9. Missouri
10. TIE: Michigan and South Dakota
Highest Smoking Rates
1 (t). Kentucky
1 (t). West Virginia
3. Oklahoma
4. Mississippi
5(t). Indiana
5(t). Missouri
7. Alabama
8. Louisiana
9. Nevada
10. Tennessee U.S. Smoking Rates by State - US News and World Report
The bottom 10 poorest states
Rank State Median Income
1 Mississippi $35,693
2 Arkansas $37,987
3 West Virginia $39,170
4 Tennessee $40,034
5 South Carolina $41,548
6 Montana $41,587
7 Kentucky $41,828
8 Alabama $42,144
9 North Carolina $42,337
10 Louisiana $42,423 http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/16/news/economy/Americas_wealthiest_states/index.htm
State Outlay to Tax Ratio Rank
(How much each state gets back in federal taxes for every $1 they contribute)
1. New Mexico $2.03
2. Mississippi $2.02
3. Alaska $1.84
4. Louisiana $1.78
5. West Virginia $1.76
6. North Dakota $1.68
7. Alabama $1.66
8. South Dakota $1.53
9. Kentucky $1.51
10. Virginia $1.51 Donor States and Welfare states - Picture This!
America's Least Green States
41 Missouri 22.6
42 North Dakota 22.2
43 Tennessee 22.2
44 Arkansas 20.8
45 Kentucky 20.4
46 Mississippi 17.6
47 Louisiana 17
48 Alabama 15.8
49 Indiana 15.3
50 West Virginia 14.2 America's Greenest States - Forbes.com
That's part of what I tried to say before and I agree and to add to your point about why some people may look down on the South/Deep South and consider it behind or underdeveloped, here's one more list. The American Human Development Index I mentioned way back in the thread.
American Human Development Index
40. New Mexico
41. Idaho
42. Montana
43. South Carolina
44. Kentucky
45. Tennessee
46. Oklahoma
47. Alabama
48. Arkansas
49. Louisiana
50. West Virginia
51. Mississippi
And at the top
1. Connecticut
2. Massachusetts
3. New Jersey
4. Washington D.C.
5. Maryland
6. Hawaii
7. New York
8. New Hampshire
9. Minnesota
10. Rhode Island
11. California
Just before anyone gets all mad, I also mentioned that I don't think it's fair for people to look down on the entire South or any states like some people say others do, and I also don't think most people actually do that.
You are interchanging "legal" with "morally correct". The North may not have been "legally" correct, but they were morally justified in fighting against slavery.
yeah, exactly, LEGALLY CORRECT. the law is the law. emotions don't count in court. that's pretty much how court works, and why they ask jurors with biases to leave.
Quote:
I suppose you think the Colonists in 1776 should not have rebelled against Great Britain because it was "illegal"? They should not have thrown the tea in the harbor etc etc?
have you ever heard of "no taxation without representation?" or do they not teach you that in your pathetic california schools? if anything, your little argument here supports the confederacy's actions. thanks for proving yourself wrong.
I love the south and its people, most are far more family oriented than alot of other places and everyone is a friend. for the most part in my opinion. I would move to the south in a minute, Georgia, alabama etc if our son was done with high school.
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