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People like to dismiss the value of that but when your downtown has top shelf shopping, dining, entertainment, cultural amenities apart from the normal M-F, 9-5 office crowd, your downtown becomes a destination, and that's precisely what downtown Seattle is.
Thats true. SF and Seattle are very strong in downtown shopping in general. I dont know how you can dismiss Seattle, at all.....
Chicago is easily #2... SF #2? Serious? You obviously haven't spent much time in Chicago DT ... there are over 600k people in Chicago DT everyday, 3/4 of the entire population of SF in only a few square miles.
You might have a few crowded areas on market and in china town where the streets are narrow and you almost have to push through people bumbling around...but no...no way. Seriously?
Here, read ... actual pedestrian traffic counts are in there as well as other interesting statistics.
Waits for somebody in SF to provide pedestrian foot count stats. Businesses track these in order to place where they will open new retail, so somebody should be able to find some data, and SF downtown information comparable to that ^
Overall yes, I have no doubt.
Chicago will blow you away with its skyline and architecture, but is not as dense and vibrant at street level.
Not me. I said Ive been there several times for a week at a time.
Anyway, its all arguable, and generally your points are valid. Having spent time in all, and no I dont think you have to "live" there. SF to me is a solid second overall. Not on every criteria of course. Chicago certainly is solid second on skyline and highrise development and its not close. In terms of downtown vibrancy and foottraffic, Seattle is right up there with Philly and Boston, but of course when you add in all other factors, like we spoke of it falls back a bit.....
My bad, had you confused with another Bay area/CA poster (yes I know you are in TX)
Overall yes, I have no doubt.
Chicago will blow you away with its skyline and architecture, but is not as dense and vibrant at street level.
It is though outside of a few congestion zones. SF might give the *appearance* of that in a few areas, but overall no way.
So if the appearance of a few crowded blocks is what you are talking about, then yes SF has more of these areas, mostly around the shopping district neighboring union square and in chinatown.
If overall foot traffic people out and about is what you are talking about, Chicago easily wins. Having to walk slow and wait on a crowd to move is annoying honestly. But yes SF does have several areas like that where you have to walk slow or kind of push your way through. There are only a few in Chicago like this, Michigan avenue is one, the other is entry points to transportation areas around the rush hours.
SF has some serious dead zones in the financial areas after hours also, just like Chicago.
Location: NY-NJ-Philly looks down at SF and laughs at the hippies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfieldian
It is though outside of a few congestion zones. SF might give the *appearance* of that in a few areas, but overall no way.
So if the appearance of a few crowded blocks is what you are talking about, then yes SF has more of these areas, mostly around the shopping district neighboring union square and in chinatown.
If overall foot traffic people out and about is what you are talking about, Chicago easily wins. Having to walk slow and wait on a crowd to move is annoying honestly. But yes SF does have several areas like that where you have to walk slow or kind of push your way through. There are only a few in Chicago like this, Michigan avenue is one, the other is entry points to transportation areas around the rush hours. SF has some serious dead zones in the financial areas after hours also, just like Chicago.
You won't have this problem in Sf because the amount of stops on BART are far and few.
Lived in manhattan (didn't just visit); Lived in the loop in Chicago (didn't just visit). Have visited downtown SF, Philly and Boston within the last year. I'm not from Cali so I have no allegiance to the west coast whatsoever. However, I'm in Sf (as we spk on biz) and that's what prompted me to respond. Other than NYC, for a sustained 5 square miles, SF is #2. Now 3, 4 and 5 Are so close tp #2 that it comes down to what you like preference wise. I don't like the fact that Boston is not continuous (but I like it's harbor the best). I don't like that Philly has wasted space for ground level parking lots that break up the pace in some spots. Chicago is without fault. And truth be told, it could be argued as second, I just happen to side with SF because unlike most cities, there is actualy more of a pulse away from the financial center than inside of it. As far as Seattle, it has the smalles area so the word 'appears' to be as large is accurate.
NYC
SF/CHI
BOS/DC/PHI
SEA/SD/NO
That's just my opinion. Last 4 wknds I've seen NYC, SD, SF and DEN so I'm just saying it's what you like in your downtown that will influence this question. I close by saying, we are the coolest forum members ever created. We travel, we inform and passionately defend our cities. It's cool to have so much love and reedy for the places you call home. They all have warts but they are still our homes. And if we Don't fight for them, who will?
Lived in manhattan (didn't just visit); Lived in the loop in Chicago (didn't just visit). Have visited downtown SF, Philly and Boston within the last year. I'm not from Cali so I have no allegiance to the west coast whatsoever. However, I'm in Sf (as we spk on biz) and that's what prompted me to respond. Other than NYC, for a sustained 5 square miles, SF is #2. Now 3, 4 and 5 Are so close tp #2 that it comes down to what you like preference wise. I don't like the fact that Boston is not continuous (but I like it's harbor the best). I don't like that Philly has wasted space for ground level parking lots that break up the pace in some spots. Chicago is without fault. And truth be told, it could be argued as second, I just happen to side with SF because unlike most cities, there is actualy more of a pulse away from the financial center than inside of it. As far as Seattle, it has the smalles area so the word 'appears' to be as large is accurate.
NYC
SF/CHI
BOS/DC/PHI
SEA/SD/NO
That's just my opinion. Last 4 wknds I've seen NYC, SD, SF and DEN so I'm just saying it's what you like in your downtown that will influence this question. I close by saying, we are the coolest forum members ever created. We travel, we inform and passionately defend our cities. It's cool to have so much love and reedy for the places you call home. They all have warts but they are still our homes. And if we Don't fight for them, who will?
Wow, kind words toward this disfunctional forum crew!
I see it the same really. For SF its not the financial district its the pulse, the vibe, the energy that covers nearly the entire city. Its no knock on Chicago or Philly or Boston. Chicago is awesome; arguably the best skyline, best architecture, lovely setting, great shopping, but not quite the vibe or frenetic energy of SF.
Interesting you brought up San Diego, it really has come a long way.
Wow, kind words toward this disfunctional forum crew!
I see it the same really. For SF its not the financial district its the pulse, the vibe, the energy that covers nearly the entire city. Its no knock on Chicago or Philly or Boston. Chicago is awesome; arguably the best skyline, best architecture, lovely setting, great shopping, but not quite the vibe or frenetic energy of SF.
Interesting you brought up San Diego, it really has come a long way.
Great post.....
Would agree the area around Petco has really filled in nicely, am hoping the area around the Philly will do something similar (think the same planning group as in SD) now that Philly live is under construction and some plans for retail/residential and sommercial in the works for the area
^^Yes. I hope the urban in-migration/renaissance that started in the last boom, continues to trickle forward toward the next boom. Really, it happened all over the nation to varying degrees.
Lived in manhattan (didn't just visit); Lived in the loop in Chicago (didn't just visit). Have visited downtown SF, Philly and Boston within the last year. I'm not from Cali so I have no allegiance to the west coast whatsoever. However, I'm in Sf (as we spk on biz) and that's what prompted me to respond. Other than NYC, for a sustained 5 square miles, SF is #2. Now 3, 4 and 5 Are so close tp #2 that it comes down to what you like preference wise. I don't like the fact that Boston is not continuous (but I like it's harbor the best). I don't like that Philly has wasted space for ground level parking lots that break up the pace in some spots. Chicago is without fault. And truth be told, it could be argued as second, I just happen to side with SF because unlike most cities, there is actualy more of a pulse away from the financial center than inside of it. As far as Seattle, it has the smalles area so the word 'appears' to be as large is accurate.
NYC
SF/CHI
BOS/DC/PHI
SEA/SD/NO
That's just my opinion. Last 4 wknds I've seen NYC, SD, SF and DEN so I'm just saying it's what you like in your downtown that will influence this question. I close by saying, we are the coolest forum members ever created. We travel, we inform and passionately defend our cities. It's cool to have so much love and reedy for the places you call home. They all have warts but they are still our homes. And if we Don't fight for them, who will?
This is not based on opinion.
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