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LOL at shopping being a "not major" category. What bigger categories to the quality of a downtown is there other than shopping?
haha is this serious?
You do realize that some people actually live and/or work downtown and don't just utilize it to go shopping right? In this case there are about a million things more important than shopping. Transportation, vibrancy, walkability, nightlife, dining, entertainment, safety, etc.
Do you really posit the most important category in determining the quality of a downtown is "shopping"? I guess your list of top downtowns must be really weird. I don't think many other people would consider Bloomington, Minnesota and King of Prussia, Pennsylvania as some of the finest downtowns in America but I guess by your criteria they are.
Yes, it is serious. Shopping is one of the major factors regarding downtown livability. Seattle has upscale shopping i.e. Gucci/Louis Vuitton Barney's NY, flagship Nordie's, Macy's along with an upcoming Target, Walgreen's etc.... a Whole Food and other less expensive grocers for downtown residents. I'd say shopping opportunities are just as important to a downtown's relevancy as office workers and residents. While Seattle obviously trails Philly significantly in regards to downtown residents, office workers is a different story. Seattle is not that far behind. If a downtown resident doesn't utilize downtown to shop, where do they go? That argument for Philly falls short. Not only does Seattle have a very strong shopping/live/work element to downtown, but we have cities in the metro that can match King of Prussia, etc (Bellevue)...
Transit in DT Seattle is simple and free. Safety - well, Seattle is one of the safest cities in the US, approaching Canadian levels of crime (or lack thereof)...it is vibrant, if you want nightlife - check out Belltown, Pioneer Square, or Capitol Hill...all very connected and walkable from the core. You want entertainment? Walk to the stadiums, the symphony, concerts, the convention center, the market, the waterfront.....there is not much more a US downtown could offer. I don't see how Philly could be significantly ahead. Maybe is Seattle is a 99, then Philly is a 100. That's about it.
Yes, it is serious. Shopping is one of the major factors regarding downtown livability. Seattle has upscale shopping i.e. Gucci/Louis Vuitton Barney's NY, flagship Nordie's, Macy's along with an upcoming Target, Walgreen's etc.... a Whole Food and other less expensive grocers for downtown residents. I'd say shopping opportunities are just as important to a downtown's relevancy as office workers and residents. While Seattle obviously trails Philly significantly in regards to downtown residents, office workers is a different story. Seattle is not that far behind. If a downtown resident doesn't utilize downtown to shop, where do they go? That argument for Philly falls short. Not only does Seattle have a very strong shopping/live/work element to downtown, but we have cities in the metro that can match King of Prussia, etc (Bellevue)...
I don't think anyone is arguing that shopping is unimportant to downtown vibrancy. However, some people do not place as much of a premium on it as others -- especially when it comes to the types of stores that maybe 10-15% of people can afford.
As people have conceded, Seattle has a fantastic retail base. One thing that goes under the radar in Philadelphia is the fantastic independent retailers/boutiques. You may not find a Nordstrom's here, but you don't find historic institutions like Boyd's or actual historic districts like "Jeweler's Row" in very many cities. In other words, there's a uniqueness factor to Philly's shopping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJKirkland
Transit in DT Seattle is simple and free. Safety - well, Seattle is one of the safest cities in the US, approaching Canadian levels of crime (or lack thereof)...it is vibrant, if you want nightlife - check out Belltown, Pioneer Square, or Capitol Hill...all very connected and walkable from the core. You want entertainment? Walk to the stadiums, the symphony, concerts, the convention center, the market, the waterfront.....there is not much more a US downtown could offer.
Again, Seattle seems to have remarkable completeness compared to most American downtowns, but I think the argument here is scale. That's not to say Seattle's downtown is small or insignificant; it's just not comparable in size to Center City and its environs.
I don't think anyone is arguing that shopping is unimportant to downtown vibrancy. However, some people do not place as much of a premium on it as others -- especially when it comes to the types of stores that maybe 10-15% of people can afford.
As people have conceded, Seattle has a fantastic retail base. One thing that goes under the radar in Philadelphia is the fantastic independent retailers/boutiques. You may not find a Nordstrom's here, but you don't find historic institutions like Boyd's or actual historic districts like "Jeweler's Row" in very many cities. In other words, there's a uniqueness factor to Philly's shopping.
Again, Seattle seems to have remarkable completeness compared to most American downtowns, but I think the argument here is scale. That's not to say Seattle's downtown is small or insignificant; it's just not comparable in size to Center City and its environs.
All good points- I can definitely see where you're coming from. I agree to that having a substantial base of independent shops is a huge asset! Good to hear they're thriving in Philly!
You do realize that some people actually live and/or work downtown and don't just utilize it to go shopping right? In this case there are about a million things more important than shopping. Transportation, vibrancy, walkability, nightlife, dining, entertainment, safety, etc.
Do you really posit the most important category in determining the quality of a downtown is "shopping"? I guess your list of top downtowns must be really weird. I don't think many other people would consider Bloomington, Minnesota and King of Prussia, Pennsylvania as some of the finest downtowns in America but I guess by your criteria they are.
IF there is no shopping then these catagories generally don't matter bacuse there is no need to go there, or are severly affected because a large amount of food traffic is for shopping.
Vibrancy - Center City
Amentities - Tied overall
Culture - Prefer Seattle, nerdier
Dining - Seattle by a small bit, the oysters there had me tearing up a little
Markets - Prefer Pike Place to Reading Terminal?
Shopping - Seattle
Museums - Center City by a large margin and even larger once the Barnes Foundation moves into Center City
Arts (Fine Art) - ? Like production of? Don't know
Public Art - Tied, CC's more noticeable, but kind of schlocky to me
Cafes - Tied, about the same for me
Activities - Seems CC is more packed
Bars - Preferred the ones in Seattle, they were more fun for me
Transportation - Weird one here as Philly obviously has the bigger infrastructure and it's much easier to get to other places outside of CC or even Philly itself than it is for downtown Seattle. However, downtown Seattle has better service if only talking about getting around within itself as buses are fairly clean, the other passengers and drivers generally courteous, the buses are timely with a nice app you can use to see the next one coming, the loading times are incredibly short as you can use their RFID ORCA card where you just pass on over a sensor, and lastly, bus rides completely within downtown Seattle are FREE.
Housing Stock - Philly's is more visually pleasing to me
Population - Seattle to some extent
Next Set of Neighborhoods - About tied.
Location - Tied. Northeast might be the best block of urbanity, but Seattle has a wide variety of some of nature's finest easily with reach and two decently large cities (Vancouver and Portland where there needs to be high speed rail quick!) to explore nearby
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