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Yes, but the gap in size is not as big as some think or nearly as big as the gap between the equivalent areas of Manhattan and Downtown Chicago. Nor is the gap as big when it comes to the intensity of pedestrian traffic.
The “on the ground” feel, I would argue, comes more from the monumental scale of Chicago’s buildings and avenues - which in certain parts (the Loop, the Riverwalk, the Mag Mile) feels every bit as grand and “world class” as anything in Manhattan — than Downtown Chicago’s physical size or pedestrian traffic.
Chicago just looking at Maps, has a “skyscraper core” of 2.5 sq miles. Philly is about 1 sq mile Boston is maybe .75 sq miles. So you’re talking 2-3x the size of these other cities.
Chicago just looking at Maps, has a “skyscraper core” of 2.5 sq miles. Philly is about 1 sq mile Boston is maybe .75 sq miles. So you’re talking 2-3x the size of these other cities.
Nobody is questioning that Chicago's skyline is much bigger than those other cities, but I dont equate skyscrapers with great urbanity or vibrance, otherwise Houston would be a better city than Paris.
The assertion at issue was that there is a big gap between Chicago and the next group of cities because it has a much larger contiguous area of vibrance/heavy foot traffic. I don't believe that area is as large as some people think, nor do I think the vibrancy gap between Chicago and the next group of cities is that dramatic.
Downtown Chicago (the whole area) is way more vibrant than downtown Boston, SF, and Center City. Can't speak for DC cause I haven't been there in awhile.
Have you been to Denver lately? River North is booming and vibrant, which some may consider greater downtown, but downtown proper is in a sorry state. Many businesses closed during the pandemic, not much of the white collar workforce has returned to the CBD since Covid, and the 16th Street Mall is an all-American display of mental illness & substance abuse.
I’d agree Downtown isn’t in it’s best state at the movement and I wouldn’t place it in my top 10, however it’s not nearly the doom and gloom situation some people make it out to be imo. All you have to do is get off 16th St for a better experience. LoDo is very vibrant these days. Even 16th St surprisingly isn’t dead despite the valid things you listed.
I was just in RiNo a few hours ago. It’s more healthy/up and coming overall for sure but it’s not finished and is only really lively along Larimer St for now.
Nobody is questioning that Chicago's skyline is much bigger than those other cities, but I dont equate skyscrapers with great urbanity or vibrance, otherwise Houston would be a better city than Paris.
The assertion at issue was that there is a big gap between Chicago and the next group of cities because it has a much larger contiguous area of vibrance/heavy foot traffic. I don't believe that area is as large as some people think, nor do I think the vibrancy gap between Chicago and the next group of cities is that dramatic.
There is a substantial gap between Chicago and the next group of cities.
Chicago has over 200k in 5 sq/miles. Center Center for context needs 50% more land area to reach that population threshold let alone SF, LA & Boston which are the next closest cities to Philly in DT population.
The issues is the gap between NYC & Chicago is so large it makes any difference between Chicago & other “peer” cities look negligible.
Manhattan is just a beast of its own. So is Downtown Chicago but on a smaller scale. Then the next group you got the other urban cities with good downtowns but cant match DT Chicago or Manhattan. The below that...you get my point
Nobody is questioning that Chicago's skyline is much bigger than those other cities, but I dont equate skyscrapers with great urbanity or vibrance, otherwise Houston would be a better city than Paris.
The assertion at issue was that there is a big gap between Chicago and the next group of cities because it has a much larger contiguous area of vibrance/heavy foot traffic. I don't believe that area is as large as some people think, nor do I think the vibrancy gap between Chicago and the next group of cities is that dramatic.
You said the physical size gap isn’t that big, but it kind of is.
Now is Chicago king of overrated? Yes. People say it’s “between NYC and Boston/Philly/SF” but it’s like 80% the way to Boston from NYC not halfway between
Manhattan is just a beast of its own. So is Downtown Chicago but on a smaller scale. Then the next group you got the other urban cities with good downtowns but cant match DT Chicago or Manhattan. The below that...you get my point
I was thinking about it yesterday, and downtown Brooklyn belongs in this grouping somewhere. Granted, it is a borough of NYC, and part of NYC, but as a borough, the downtown rivals--and possibly exceeds--many of these cities listed, above.
Downtown has rapidly developed and gentrified in the past decade, and continues to do so at a rapid pace, today. There are 6 or 7 skyscrapers under construction in downtown Brooklyn, and in total, downtown has over 55 skyscrapers exceeding 300 feet, and growing fast.
The foot traffic, infrastructure, entertainment and cultural mix, as well as residential population, is on par with many listed, if not better than some.
In my estimation, if counting Brooklyn and including it in the list, here's where it would sit in the rankings:
1 Manhattan
Huge gap
2 Chicago
big gap
3 Philadelphia
4 Boston
5 San Francisco
6 Washington, DC
7 Seattle
8 downtown Brooklyn
^these are all very close
big gap
9 LA
10 Miami
Arguably, Brooklyn is just as bustling as Philly, Boston, San Fran, DC and Seattle--if not moreso due to the multiple subway lines, residents without cars, and population of around 500-600k+ living within a mile of downtown.
There is a lot of back and forth, my 2 cents having lived in Manhattan for many years and visiting Chicago a hundred times when my boyfriend lived there.
Manhattan is completely in it's own league, even on a global scale. Chicago is also in it's own league, but a league closer to Philly, Boston, SF in terms of everything being discussed.
Arguably, Brooklyn is just as bustling as Philly, Boston, San Fran, DC and Seattle--if not moreso due to the multiple subway lines, residents without cars, and population of around 500-600k+ living within a mile of downtown.
The funny thing is, I would put Brooklyn and Philly on par, with the chief difference being that Brooklyn doesn't have the concentration of arts, cultural and historic attractions in its downtown that Philadelphia does. (Manhattan has a near-hammerlock on live theater, and while the Brooklyn Academy of Music is in downtown, the Brooklyn Museum isn't. The (American) Academy of Music is in downtown Philadelphia, and the Philadelphia Museum of Art lies right on its northwest edge. Philadelphia also has eight other museums in Center City in addition to Independence Hall, the Liberty Bell, Carpenter's Hall and the Second Bank of the United States Portrait Gallery [all of which I consider one attraction]; I'm sure Brooklyn has some in downtown, but the only one I can think of is the New York City Transit Museum in the former Court-Schemerhorn subway station.)
Brooklynites appear to feel the same way: the net flow of Brooklynites to Philadelphia is greater than that of residents of any other New York City borough over the course of each of the last two decades. (The population flows are net towards Philadelphia from Queens and the Bronx as well, but in lesser numbers; the flow is negligible to or from Staten Island, and it's net towards Manhattan from Philadelphia. For the city as a whole, the flow is net towards Philadelphia. And more people move between New York City and Philadelphia than move between any other two U.S. cities not in the same metropolitan area each decade.)
My explanation for this phenomenon was: "Brooklynites realized they were paying New York prices for the Philadelphia experience and decided it would make more sense to pay Philadelphia prices for it."
Last edited by MarketStEl; 08-24-2022 at 08:18 AM..
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