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The St. Louis metro area has never declined in population. It continues to grow steadily. It grew about 4% from 2000-2010, not much, but it's not declining.
And for crime. The Cleveland metro area ranked 254, and the St. Louis metro area ranked 266 out of 354 for safest metro areas, so there are plenty of metro areas that are less safe, like Nashville, Houston, Orlando, Jacksonville, Miami, San Antonio, Memphis, Tulsa, Little Rock, etc. And the Atlanta metro area is ranked below Cleveland in safety and only 5 ahead of St. Louis. So the crime part shouldn't even be brought up. And to me, metro area crime rankings mean a lot more than city crime rankings because when you move to a city, you get the whole metro area, not just the city. This is especially true in physically small cities like St. Louis.
Sorry, I was thinking Cleveland when I grouped St. Louis on declining metro population. The cities or actually just the core of the cities are more important on crime, what are people more likely to see more of? Places in the core where the attractions are or the inner ring poor burbs that are meant to have crime, poverty has to go somewhere. Paris is like that actually, core is safe the inner ring burbs are crimeridden with poverty, and the outer burbs are safe for the upper class. Gentrification in Chicago is headed that way, the city while declining is becoming a much nicer place than its been in the last 60 years. Crime and poverty are moving to the inner burbs places like East Chicago but looks like the weather is causing Chicago to steer off track this year. What a shame, it was doing a good job of reducing crime the previous 4 years.
This crime talk is splitting hairs, my point was that if west wants to argue crime then why look at regional level? You really think crime in Shreveport, LA affects someone in Richmond, VA? What hypocrisy, the midwest has just as many if not more bombed out ghettos than the south, west, northeast, etc.
Its very general American, midwesterners come off as very isolated or closed off from the rest of the world. They're happy with their American ancestries
That's a good observation. A lot of people in the heartland are "Merican" through and through. They probably know they're Germanic or whatnot, because of their last names, but seem to be very content with their context and don't want to invest in knowing what's outside of it. Nonetheless, they are very nice and helpful when one is transiting through their towns/areas.
Sorry, I was thinking Cleveland when I grouped St. Louis on declining metro population. The cities or actually just the core of the cities are more important on crime, what are people more likely to see more of? Places in the core where the attractions are or the inner ring poor burbs that are meant to have crime, poverty has to go somewhere. Paris is like that actually, core is safe the inner ring burbs are crimeridden with poverty, and the outer burbs are safe for the upper class. Gentrification in Chicago is headed that way, the city while declining is becoming a much nicer place than its been in the last 60 years. Crime and poverty are moving to the inner burbs places like East Chicago but looks like the weather is causing Chicago to steer off track this year. What a shame, it was doing a good job of reducing crime the previous 4 years.
This crime talk is splitting hairs, my point was that if west wants to argue crime then why look at regional level? You really think crime in Shreveport, LA affects someone in Richmond, VA? What hypocrisy, the midwest has just as many if not more bombed out ghettos than the south, west, northeast, etc.
But most Southern cities have larger city limits than Midwestern cities. St. Louis for example is only 60 square miles because it locked its city limits a century ago. Nashville covers 500 sq miles. So of course, when you compare St. Louis to Nashville, St. Louis is gonna come out as more dangerous because St. Louis is completely urban while Nashville is half suburban. Now, if you took the most urban 60 sq miles of Nashville and compared it to St. Louis, then the crime rates would be comparable, but that's hard to do, so the metro area crime rankings make more sense, and St. Louis actually comes out as safer than Nashville. A lot of people who move to Nashville actually move to Williamson County, so looking at city crime rankings doesn't mean much. They need to look at metro crime rankings.
And when I visit St. Louis, I dont just stay in the city because there's a lot in the suburbs too, like Clayton, University City, Kirkwood, St Charles. Like I said, it's a physically small city. The inner-ring suburbs feel like part of the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot
That's a good observation. A lot of people in the heartland are "Merican" through and through. They probably know they're Germanic or whatnot, because of their last names, but seem to be very content with their context and don't want to invest in knowing what's outside of it. Nonetheless, they are very nice and helpful when one is transiting through their towns/areas.
yeah, that's why the majority of people who claim "American" as their ancestry live in the South, while most Midwesterners claim German, Irish, Polish, Italian, Swedish, Norwegian, etc as their ancestry.
That's a good observation. A lot of people in the heartland are "Merican" through and through. They probably know they're Germanic or whatnot, because of their last names, but seem to be very content with their context and don't want to invest in knowing what's outside of it. Nonetheless, they are very nice and helpful when one is transiting through their towns/areas.
That sounds like such a stereotype. I could easily see someone describing the South in the exact way. That they are "merican" through and through.
But most Southern cities have larger city limits than Midwestern cities. St. Louis for example is only 60 square miles because it locked its city limits a century ago. Nashville covers 500 sq miles. So of course, when you compare St. Louis to Nashville, St. Louis is gonna come out as more dangerous because St. Louis is completely urban while Nashville is half suburban. Now, if you took the most urban 60 sq miles of Nashville and compared it to St. Louis, then the crime rates would be comparable, but that's hard to do, so the metro area crime rankings make more sense, and St. Louis actually comes out as safer than Nashville. A lot of people who move to Nashville actually move to Williamson County, so looking at city crime rankings doesn't mean much. They need to look at metro crime rankings.
And when I visit St. Louis, I dont just stay in the city because there's a lot in the suburbs too, like Clayton, University City, Kirkwood, St Charles. Like I said, it's a physically small city. The inner-ring suburbs feel like part of the city.
Two things I can say.
1. I concede that southern cities have larger boundaries than midwestern cities.
2. A typical tourist wouldnt bother with a place like Clayton over St. Louis proper. So what people see when they fly in/drive in to the core is representative of what their impressions will be of the city/metropolis IMO. Its important to keep the core clean, safe, and patrolled IMO.
Just as I mentioned earlier though, crime is splitting hairs as it exists everywhere. To be sure the south as a region has more crime than the midwest but as I stated Richmond, VA to Shreveport, LA there is no connection on crime and safety that should matter.
That sounds like such a stereotype. I could easily see someone describing the South in the exact way. That they are "merican" through and through.
Not the people in Miami, Houston, DC, Dallas, New Orleans, or Atlanta. These cities are true melting pots that no city in the midwest except Chicago [maybe Detroit and Minneapolis] can look eye to eye with.
What people in Shreveport or other small places think dont alter what those in large urban corridors of the south think.
1. I concede that southern cities have larger boundaries than midwestern cities.
2. A typical tourist wouldnt bother with a place like Clayton over St. Louis proper. So what people see when they fly in/drive in to the core is representative of what their impressions will be of the city/metropolis IMO. Its important to keep the core clean, safe, and patrolled IMO.
Just as I mentioned earlier though, crime is splitting hairs as it exists everywhere. To be sure the south as a region has more crime than the midwest but as I stated Richmond, VA to Shreveport, LA there is no connection on crime and safety that should matter.
Well they need to go to Clayton because it's really nice. Most St. Louisians would consider it part of the urban core because it's connected to the urban core that extends from Downtown to Clayton
And the St. Louis core isn't any worse than the cores of Southern cities, it just that St. Louis doesn't have 300+ sq miles of annexed suburban-esque areas within its city limits to bring the crime rate down. Southern cities do have these types of areas within their city limits, so it makes it seem like their cores are safer, when in reality they just have a lot of suburban areas in their city limits to off-set the crime in their urban cores. Atlanta has Buckhead within its city limits. St. Louis has Clayton/Brentwood/Richmond Heights/Ladue/Frontenac, which is comparable to Buckhead, but it's not within the city limits, so it doesn't help bring the crime rate down.
Keep in mind. Texas at its heart is culturally, historically, and linguistically Southern. But you cannot pigeonhole the entire state in the Southern region. That's why people say Texas is Texas. The entire state of Arkansas is Southern. The entire state of Mississippi is Southern. The entire states of Alabama and Georgia are Southern. The entire state of South Carolina is Southern. The entire state of Texas is NOT Southern. Just a vast majority (which is basically where most of the population lives).
That sounds like such a stereotype. I could easily see someone describing the South in the exact way. That they are "merican" through and through.
It is, and throw in good chunks of the South, too. Let's face it. A lot of Americans, even in big metro areas, don't care what goes on beyond our borders.
I would expect to find more of the homogenous "merican" vibe in Omaha NE, for example, than I would in Charlotte NC (Nascar and Billy Graham aside).
yeah, that's why the majority of people who claim "American" as their ancestry live in the South, while most Midwesterners claim German, Irish, Polish, Italian, Swedish, Norwegian, etc as their ancestry.
This is a very American thing to do, I nod my head and roll my eyes when I ask someone where they hail from and they answer saying they are part German, Irish, Italian, French, etc all rolled in. Their relying off where their ancestors trace their roots, most of these people havent even been to Europe let alone have any deep ties to warrant their foam in mouth flag waiving. These people more often than not cant even speak/understand German, French, Italian, etc
If anyone wants to know what a real cosmopolitan city looks like then I invite you to join me in Miami. I'll give you a short tour over the weekend and then when you see a blue eyed half French half Brasilian girl [able to speak French/Portuguese], you'll see what separates the south from the midwest. DC, Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta have this also and these are all places where minorities compromise over 40% of their metro populations.
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