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Uhh...yes you can, what do you think is just outside of Chicagoland? Endless cornfields...
"Just outside?" Point to me the closest spot from downtown Chicago where there are "endless cornfields." It's actually pretty damn far. ESL is right across from downtown St Louis. Every single metro area in the US eventually turns into a rural one. The people who live in the area are saying that ESL has pockets of open space because it has lost so much population, but surrounding ESL are suburbs and businesses close to the St Louis core - it's NOT a rural area. That was my experience when I've been through the area, as well.
Right, "just outside" a metro area that's 100 miles from end to end is cornfields, lending such a "rural" feel to the place. That's why everyone in the Chicago area wears bib overalls.
we're not talking about a far flung exurb of chicago or a small town immediately outside of metro chicago, nor are we talking about the same thing in the st. Louis metro. We are talking about a run down, dilapidated, crime infested city immediately adjacent to downtown st. Louis and to some other non-crime infested suburbs. I do not need to look at a picture because i grew up in belleville, the suburb that's sitting on top of the hill that overlooks east st. Louis. I drove through east st. Louis to get into st. Louis all the time.
Also that's not a rural area, nor is that how rural is defined. Rural implies countryside, farms, small towns, etc. That's not what east st. Louis is. There's urban blight and urban prairie for sure, but that doesn't make it rural. Going by what you think rural is, then there are areas of chicago proper that are positively rural.
That was never the point, but good for you for liking philadelphia more.
I took issue with your argument not due to an issue between philadelphia or st. Louis, but because you keep referencing new york city when this should be about philadelphia. That's the metro camden is in. Do you think a poor person living in camden is throwing money at constant trips to new york city, baltimore, or dc?
by that logic a poor person in east st. Louis could just be popping into chicago, louisville, memphis, indianapolis, kansas city, or nashville all the time as well since those places are all 250-300 miles away from east st. Louis. They don't even have to drive either. They can take the amtrak or the bus.
but, again, that wasn't my point.
My points were that none of those cities, whether you're in camden or e. St. Louis, are options for many of either cities' residents due to the level of poverty they're in, and that camden should not be considered to be in nyc's metro/that nyc is right there when camden is immediately across from downtown philadelphia. That's all.
You would prefer to live in camden? Go ahead. You think e. St. Louis is a hellhole? Good for you again. So does the rest of greater st. Louis, myself included. That was never my point when i originally responded to you though. Was i nitpicking when i replied? Most likely, but still, arguing that one was better than the other was never my point. I just wanted to clear up what i perceived to be misinformation.
the midwest metros in no way compare to the density and proximity of the east coast metros. Camden is very close to philadelphia and reasonably close to nyc. Camden is closer to nyc than east st. Louis is to chicago, fact.
Lastly, camden actually has decent areas, east st. Louis does not. There are no nice suburbs of st. Louis on the illinois side that i am aware of. Signing off this thread now.
"Just outside?" Point to me the closest spot from downtown Chicago where there are "endless cornfields." It's actually pretty damn far. ESL is right across from downtown St Louis. Every single metro area in the US eventually turns into a rural one. The people who live in the area are saying that ESL has pockets of open space because it has lost so much population, but surrounding ESL are suburbs and businesses close to the St Louis core - it's NOT a rural area. That was my experience when I've been through the area, as well.
Please refer back to the pictures we have posted of East St. Louis. Many of them look desolate and rural, with lots of empty wilderness surrounding the houses.
Joliet is now part of Chicagoland, just outside of Joliet are endless cornfields. I didn't say right outside of downtown Chicago are there cornfields, but there is a lot of open space outside of downtown St. Louis, and you'll find that open and rural space in East St. Louis.
Interesting video. What can be seen of Camden from the train coming across the river actually looks pretty decent. But I've seen the crappy parts of Camden too.
There are no nice suburbs of st. Louis on the illinois side that i am aware of. Signing off this thread now.
This statement is so incredibly incorrect. Edwardsville, Glen Carbon, Fairview Hts, Maryville, Belleville: these are all perfectly nice suburbs in the Metro East (an area of almost 700,000 people!) that you would find in upper middle class suburbia all over the U.S. Madison county IL is actually pretty nice overall. Even Alton has some nice areas. ESL is a pretty extreme case.
the midwest metros in no way compare to the density and proximity of the east coast metros. Camden is very close to philadelphia and reasonably close to nyc. Camden is closer to nyc than east st. Louis is to chicago, fact.
Lastly, camden actually has decent areas, east st. Louis does not. There are no nice suburbs of st. Louis on the illinois side that i am aware of. Signing off this thread now.
That you're aware of... yeah, this just goes to show how incredibly ignorant you are on this subject. Not arguing either way, but you're making a fool of yourself.
Don't shatter Coldailment's delusion of there being nothing nice on the IL side of St. Louis!
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