With Out Thinking Of Census Numbers Which City Feesl Larger IN Numbers L.A./Houston/Chicago/Dallas/Atlanta/Miami? (compared, America)

[iknowftbll]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

I agree. Los Angeles to me feels larger as a city and even more so at the MSA level. The only thing that makes Chicago fell larger than L.A. is its downtown area and skyline imo.

I'd say that makes Chicago look larger, but not feel larger. Maybe it's the same thing, though.

[westhou]

Originally Posted by dee936

I would say if census numbers where not around this is how I would list the cities as far population goes.
I going to list from which city feels the largest to least in populaton.

1.Chicago
2.L.A.
3.Dallas
4.Houston
5.Miami
6.Atlanta
:c ool::coo l: :c ool:

I'd say:

1. L.A./Miami
2. Chicago
3. Houston/Dallas/Atlanta

I feel the vast amount of foreigners in LA and Miami make it feel really big. Chicago has the skyscrapers but that doesn't necessarily make it seem like a large population. Just a successful one. Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta seem equal. Not too big and not small. Just an average size population.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by westhou

Chicago has the skyscrapers but that doesn't necessarily make it seem like a large population.

The only place this would be true would be the Loop, which is the CBD. Although M-F the daytime population swells to probably 750,000 in the matter of about 1.5 sq mi. When the weather is not cold out (which is about 6-7 months of the year), areas like Gold Coast, River North, etc can get very, very busy on the streets. However, the same is true in the lakefront neighborhoods that have high rises like Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Edgewater, Uptown, etc. Go to the intersection of Diversey and Clark/Broadway and you'd think you were downtown. Wicker Park is another example that's not high rise and not along the lake, but is very vibrant where you'd think you were in some low rise section of downtown too. Anybody who thinks that downtown is the densest part of town and where everything is going down, doesn't know much about the city. Only about 4-5% of the entire city's population lives downtown, which is still over 100,000 people. There are denser parts of town on average, actually.

[westhou]

Originally Posted by marothisu

The only place this would be true would be the Loop, which is the CBD. Although M-F the daytime population swells to probably 750,000 in the matter of about 1.5 sq mi. When the weather is not cold out (which is about 6-7 months of the year), areas like Gold Coast, River North, etc can get very, very busy on the streets. However, the same is true in the lakefront neighborhoods that have high rises like Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Edgewater, Uptown, etc. Go to the intersection of Diversey and Clark/Broadway and you'd think you were downtown. Wicker Park is another example that's not high rise and not along the lake, but is very vibrant where you'd think you were in some low rise section of downtown too. Anybody who thinks that downtown is the densest part of town and where everything is going down, doesn't know much about the city. Only about 4-5% of the entire city's population lives downtown, which is still over 100,000 people. There are denser parts of town on average, actually.

I can only speak for myself when I say this but when I think about Chicago the first thing that comes to mind are the skyscrapers. I don't really think about the population. I know there are a lot of people there but it doesn't scream at me explosive population. When I think of cities like Paris, London, NYC, and LA I think of a huge and explosive population because of the influx of so many foreigners that it just seems like a destination for international people wanting to move there. I've never thought of Chicago in that way. I'm sure Chicago has a lot of people living there from overseas but it's not the perception I get on the level of the other cities I mentioned.

I view Chicago in the same way I view other world cities like Sydney, Tokyo, Berlin, Moscow, Beijing, and other large cities with big populations but to me not an immigrant destination on the level of London, Paris, and NYC are known to be. It may not be an accurate perception but it is the one that I have and that's why I ranked the cities the way I did.

Chicago may have very dense areas outside its CBD but I don't think most people around the world know that. Or even most people in the U.S.

I think people see Chicago and are amazed by all the skyscrapers but don't necessarily translate that to mega population. More like an economic powerhouse like Frankfurt.

[marothisu]

With that, I think it would also be interesting to do a density comparison at the Census Block Group level for all of these cities:

Density of 250,000 per sq mile or more
Chicago: 1630 people
Los Angeles: 0 people
Miami: 0 people
Atlanta: 0 people
Houston: 0 people
Dallas: 0 people

Density of 175,000 per sq mile to 249,999/sq mi
Los Angeles: 3442 people
Chicago: 1558 people
Miami: 0 people
Atlanta: 0 people
Houston: 0 people
Dallas: 0 people

Density of 100K/sq mi to 174,999/sq mi:
Chicago: 27,823 people
Los Angeles: 9476 people
Miami: 4170 people
Atlanta: 0 people
Houston: 0 people
Dallas: 0 people

Density of 75K/sq mi to 99,999/sq mi:
Los Angeles: 35,827 people
Chicago: 30,940 people
Miami: 2757 people
Dallas: 1835 people
Atlanta: 0 people
Houston: 0 people

Density of 50K/sq mi to 74,999/sq mi:
Los Angeles: 98,568 people
Chicago: 71,606 people
Miami: 7343 people
Houston: 5351 people
Dallas: 3467 people
Atlanta: 1092 people


Density of 40K/sq mi to 49,999/sq mi:
Los Angeles: 103,640 people
Chicago: 88,151 people
Dallas: 10,201 people
Houston: 10,173 people
Miami: 6824 people
Atlanta: 2356 people


Density of 50K or more
Los Angeles: 147,313 people (3.88% of total population)
Chicago: 133,557 people (4.95% of total population)
Miami: 14,270 people (3.57% of total population)
Houston: 5351 people (0.25% of total population)
Dallas: 5302 people (0.44% of total population)
Atlanta: 1092 people (0.26% of total population)

Density of 40K or more
Los Angeles: 250,953 people (6.62% of total population)
Chicago: 221,708 people (8.2% of total population)
Miami: 21,094 people (5.28% of total population)
Houston: 15,524 people (0.74% of total population)
Dallas: 15,503 people (1.29% of total population)
Atlanta: 3448 people (0.82% of total population)

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by westhou

I can only speak for myself when I say this but when I think about Chicago the first thing that comes to mind are the skyscrapers. I don't really think about the population. I know there are a lot of people there but it doesn't scream at me explosive population. When I think of cities like Paris, London, NYC, and LA I think of a huge and explosive population because of the influx of so many foreigners that it just seems like a destination for international people wanting to move there. I've never thought of Chicago in that way. I'm sure Chicago has a lot of people living there from overseas but it's not the perception I get on the level of the other cities I mentioned.

I view Chicago in the same way I view other world cities like Sydney, Tokyo, Berlin, Moscow, Beijing, and other large cities with big populations but to me not an immigrant destination on the level of London, Paris, and NYC are known to be. It may not be an accurate perception but it is the one that I have and that's why I ranked the cities the way I did.

Chicago may have very dense areas outside its CBD but I don't think most people around the world know that. Or even most people in the U.S.

I think people see Chicago and are amazed by all the skyscrapers but don't necessarily translate that to mega population. More like an economic powerhouse like Frankfurt.

I think there's a few things going on here.

1) There aren't many cities in the entire world that will touch the foreigner thing like a NYC, London, Melbourne, Toronto etc will at this moment in time. Los Angeles is gaining ground on that.


With Chicago, the city was built big time on immigrants (and also African Americans from the south). Many originally from Europe, then later there was an influx of people from Latin America and then Asia. A little over 21% of the entire population is foreign born as of the 2012 ACS estimates. That's 580,105 people, and of those, 39,439 entered between 2010 and 2012. However, there is also the "first generation" deal going on. 2012 estimates also show that 36.8% of the people do not speak English at home. Is that on the scale of NYC, London, LA? No, but it's still not bad in the least bit.

The immigration is still going on, but it wasn't what it nearly was back in the day, but to say that Chicago is not international is not really correct. There's still almost 600,000 foreign born people in Chicago which is again not on the scale of NYC, London, or Melbourne (not many cities truly are around the world), but it's still a lot of people.


2) This is not necessarily a "what does the world think of" thread. You can really say similar things about any given city. This is more about "if you live in this city, which feels larger." LA is a good example of this just like Chicago - it's denser than people think but it's not the first thing they think of in the least bit.

And no matter how you think of Chicago, 2.7 million people especially for US standards, is a big city. Same as almost 10 million in the metro. I think LA feels larger metro wise because it is massive. As you can see above, Chicago has just slightly lesser population than LA does for people living in Block Groups of 50,000/sq mi or more. They're pretty close to one another in reality in that regard. Built environment also has to do with it, which is where I think for the city itself, Chicago pulls ahead of LA. LA metro area is obviously bigger and denser than Chicago.


3) I think everyone has a different idea of what "feels bigger" means. For me, it has more to do with density and the feeling you get by being on the street. For that, the two obvious choices in this thread are LA and Chicago. Dallas has a population of 400,000 more than San Francisco, but San Francisco to me feels like the bigger city, for example.

For others, it evokes land area type of stuff and sprawl. For others, it may mean a feeling of being bigger than just the US (i.e. international community).


4) Why isn't Boston, DC, and San Francisco in this poll?

[jamesw1207]

I agree. Los Angeles feels larger not only because of its metro but also its suburbs. The amount of suburbs is much greater than the amount of suburbs in Chicago.

[westhou]

Originally Posted by marothisu

I think there's a few things going on here.

1) There aren't many cities in the entire world that will touch the foreigner thing like a NYC, London, Melbourne, Toronto etc will at this moment in time. Los Angeles is gaining ground on that.


With Chicago, the city was built big time on immigrants (and also African Americans from the south). Many originally from Europe, then later there was an influx of people from Latin America and then Asia. A little over 21% of the entire population is foreign born as of the 2012 ACS estimates. That's 580,105 people, and of those, 39,439 entered between 2010 and 2012. However, there is also the "first generation" deal going on. 2012 estimates also show that 36.8% of the people do not speak English at home. Is that on the scale of NYC, London, LA? No, but it's still not bad in the least bit.

The immigration is still going on, but it wasn't what it nearly was back in the day, but to say that Chicago is not international is not really correct. There's still almost 600,000 foreign born people in Chicago which is again not on the scale of NYC, London, or Melbourne (not many cities truly are around the world), but it's still a lot of people.


2) This is not necessarily a "what does the world think of" thread. You can really say similar things about any given city. This is more about "if you live in this city, which feels larger." LA is a good example of this just like Chicago - it's denser than people think but it's not the first thing they think of in the least bit.

And no matter how you think of Chicago, 2.7 million people especially for US standards, is a big city. Same as almost 10 million in the metro. I think LA feels larger metro wise because it is massive. As you can see above, Chicago has just slightly lesser population than LA does for people living in Block Groups of 50,000/sq mi or more. They're pretty close to one another in reality in that regard. Built environment also has to do with it, which is where I think for the city itself, Chicago pulls ahead of LA. LA metro area is obviously bigger and denser than Chicago.


3) I think everyone has a different idea of what "feels bigger" means. For me, it has more to do with density and the feeling you get by being on the street. For that, the two obvious choices in this thread are LA and Chicago. Dallas has a population of 400,000 more than San Francisco, but San Francisco to me feels like the bigger city, for example.

For others, it evokes land area type of stuff and sprawl. For others, it may mean a feeling of being bigger than just the US (i.e. international community).


4) Why isn't Boston, DC, and San Francisco in this poll?

It's all about perception and for the purpose of this thread I went with my own perception. That's why I put LA first. It seems the closet to me to Paris, London, NYC, and Toronto when it comes to immigrants.

When I think of Chicago I definitely think big city. I agree with you that 2.7 million people is a lot of people which is why I ranked it #2. I put a pretty wide distance between Chicago and the the cities I ranked after it Houston/Dallas/Atlanta. I appreciate just how big Chicago is and that's why I put it up there with many other world cities like Sydney, Berlin, and Moscow. I just don't place it in the mega city category.

From the cities provided by the OP I would put LA the closest to a mega city when it comes to which one feels most like NYC, London, Paris, and Toronto when it comes to population. That's why I put LA ahead of Chicago.

I appreciate the data you provided regarding Chicago and immigration. But for some reason I see Chicago as a city people move to within the United States and not so much from foreign countries. But of course your data says otherwise so I won't argue with that. I'm just going to go off my perception. When I think of modern immigration I think of Africans moving to London and Paris in super large numbers and I think of just about every country in the entire world moving to NYC in droves. When I think of LA and Miami I think of many people south of the border moving there in droves. Chicago I think about people moving there in similar patterns as other cities across the country.

I know there are other factors involved when it comes to how big a city population feels but that's the one that makes ME think of big population feel.

I hope my explanation doesn't come across as insulting because that's not the intent. I can think of several categories where I would rank Chicago over LA but for this particular topic I had to go with LA and Miami.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by westhou

It's all about perception and for the purpose of this thread I went with my own perception. That's why I put LA first. It seems the closet to me to Paris, London, NYC, and Toronto when it comes to immigrants.

When I think of Chicago I definitely think big city. I agree with you that 2.7 million people is a lot of people which is why I ranked it #2. I put a pretty wide distance between Chicago and the the cities I ranked after it Houston/Dallas/Atlanta. I appreciate just how big Chicago is and that's why I put it up there with many other world cities like Sydney, Berlin, and Moscow. I just don't place it in the mega city category.

From the cities provided by the OP I would put LA the closest to a mega city when it comes to which one feels most like NYC, London, Paris, and Toronto when it comes to population. That's why I put LA ahead of Chicago.

I appreciate the data you provided regarding Chicago and immigration. But for some reason I see Chicago as a city people move to within the United States and not so much from foreign countries. But of course your data says otherwise so I won't argue with that. I'm just going to go off my perception. When I think of modern immigration I think of Africans moving to London and Paris in super large numbers and I think of just about every country in the entire world moving to NYC in droves. When I think of LA and Miami I think of many people south of the border moving there in droves. Chicago I think about people moving there in similar patterns as other cities across the country.

I know there are other factors involved when it comes to how big a city population feels but that's the one that makes ME think of big population feel.

I hope my explanation doesn't come across as insulting because that's not the intent. I can think of several categories where I would rank Chicago over LA but for this particular topic I had to go with LA and Miami.

Well first of all, I think Chicago and LA are clearly the top 2 here, and really top 2 for obvious reasons outside of NYC. I also agree that LA has a lot of immigrant stuff going on - and yes you're going off your perceptions, but in no way is Chicago just a city that US people only move to. I'll agree with you that more international people move to LA than Chicago - this is obvious, but again - in no way is Chicago not international. With the third largest economy in the world, probably the 2nd largest financial sector in the country and one of the tops in the world, and basically tied with SF's MSA for 2nd most Fortune 500 HQ in the US, it would be silly to think that international people don't move there. As far as ethnic areas of town there is Chinatown, Little Vietnam, Devon (i.e. Little India/Pakistan), Humboldt Park (Puerto Rico), Greektown, Little Italy (what's left of it, unfortunately), Koreatown (what's left of it), and many different mexican parts of town though the largest is Little Village. Also near Little India/Pakistan there are now many Arabs and Iraqis and also many Hasidic Jews. Then not terribly far from there is an area of town that is full of Polish people (and some other Eastern European countries). There are also smaller areas serving communities such as the Cuban and Ethiopian communities.

Also going off of official diplomatic missions (i.e. embassies), Los Angeles has 62 while Chicago has 51. San Francisco has 41 while Houston has 38. Miami has 35.



There's also no way that Miami feels "bigger" in terms of population than Chicago. Los Angeles - yes. Miami - no way. The only thing Miami wins on is international percentage. All things considered - population, density, buildings, etc - Chicago (and of course Los Angeles) are ahead of it. Miami is still #3 on the above list for percentage of people living at or above 40,000 per sq mi by census block groups. It would also surprise people that Chicago gets more tourists per year than Miami does.

[dee936]

Dallas does deserve spot number 3 because when driving the city it feel so massive and in North Dallas with all the urban areas and the high fives intersection just makes it feel larger then Houston,Miami and Atlanta.