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Ummmm....it is, would you like me to show you the stats for all the downtown DC neighborhoods and their retail capacity? You have Foggy Bottom, DuPont Circle, Golden Triangle, Logan Circle, Penn Quarter, Mt. Vernon Triangle, Northwest One, NOMA, Union Market, The Wharf, SW Eco District, Capital Riverfront, and. Buzzard Point.
You really don't have a clue about DC do you?
Yes, I most certainly do have a clue about D.C. as I go there for work, and have friends in the area.
Your definition of 'Downtown D.C.' is extremely generous, as I suspected it would be.
In that case the definition of Downtown Seattle is now expanded to include Belltown, South Lake Union, the Denney Triangle, First Hill, Capitol Hill, Lower Queen Anne and the International District.
Yes, I most certainly do have a clue about D.C. as I go there for work, and have friends in the area.
Your definition of 'Downtown D.C.' is extremely generous, as I suspected it would be.
In that case the definition of Downtown Seattle is now expanded to include Belltown, South Lake Union, the Denney Triangle, First Hill, Capitol Hill, Lower Queen Anne and the International District.
If you call single family homes downtown development, then that just proves what I have been saying about the difference between urban cities and non-urban cities. Every single downtown neighborhood I just named are mixed use apartment, condo, office, hotel, first floor retail high-rise neighborhoods built to "zero lot" specification in urban downtown districts. If the areas in Seattle fit the same urban design requirements to be considered urban downtown neighborhoods, then that is fine. So....let's perform our analysis shall we?
In other words, they all look like what you would consider downtown DC. Now, do the neighborhoods you just named look like the area we would consider downtown Seattle where all the high-rises are?
With the way DC is developing, it's beginning to function just like the island of Manhattan. We all know Manhattan is not one big downtown, it is multiple neighborhoods, however, since the urban intensity of the development doesn't drop across the whole island, it functions like one massive district. DC is developing the exact same way with high-rises spreading uninterrupted across all the districts I have listed. What other city covers an area as large with high-rises other than NYC?
Last edited by MDAllstar; 02-01-2015 at 12:46 PM..
Having lived in DC (and currently considering a job opportunity in Seattle), I will posit that the downtown feel shouldn't be much of a consideration. What is great about DC are the neighborhoods surrounding downtown, and the ease of mobility. A lot of people will complain about Metro, but in all seriousness, it is incredibly easy to get around DC.
The ease of mobility means you can get downtown when/if you need to, and easily visit other neighborhoods. When I lived in DC, I never turned down a social opportunity because it was too hard to get to. This even includes traveling to first-ring suburbs like Arlington and Silver Spring. When I lived there, I took for granted how well all of the different neighborhoods are connected - and how the compactness of DC supports that. Now that I live in Chicago, where it takes a lot longer to get between neighborhoods, I have a better appreciation for DC's size.
DC's downtown may lack the shopping of other major city downtowns, but it is pretty cool to work downtown, and go sit on the National Mall during your lunch break. Can't do that in a lot of other places...
If you call single family homes downtown development, then that just proves what I have been saying about the difference between urban cities and non-urban cities. Every single downtown neighborhood I just named are mixed use apartment, condo, office, hotel, first floor retail high-rise neighborhoods built to "zero lot" specification in urban downtown districts. If the areas in Seattle fit the same urban design requirements to be considered urban downtown neighborhoods, then that is fine. So....let's perform our analysis shall we?
And here you go again with the single family home obsession. You clearly have not been to Seattle.
As I have previously stated, you set the bar in these discussions at a level that is unrealistic for all but a handful of places.
I have no desire to slice and dice density figures, census tracts or available vacant retail square footage available for lease in 'Greater' Downtown D.C.
The premise here is which place can give you a better urban experience. My un-changeable opinion being familiar with both is that Seattle provides a much superior one in every way, with the exception of rail-based transit.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,552,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl
And here you go again with the single family home obsession. You clearly have not been to Seattle.
As I have previously stated, you set the bar in these discussions at a level that is unrealistic for all but a handful of places.
I have no desire to slice and dice density figures, census tracts or available vacant retail square footage available for lease in 'Greater' Downtown D.C.
The premise here is which place can give you a better urban experience. My un-changeable opinion being familiar with both is that Seattle provides a much superior one in every way, with the exception of rail-based transit.
While still disregarding my 5 points clearly laid out for you, I'll set this here again....
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
Not going there. I've been to both, and there is no comparison. Perhaps you should do the same. It would give you an idea of what a real Downtown can be.
D.C. will never have the well rounded total package that is Downtown Seattle.
Well since you couldn't come up with 5 distinct reasons for Seattle, i'll put an end to it this easily:
1. Hotels over 30,000 hotel rooms with many more on the way, Trump renovating space downtown for new hotel, new Marriott Marquis Downtown, Conrad Hilton to begin construction this summer, all of these are hotels where there are less than 6 in the country none of them are in DT Seattle. Multiple convention spaces one of the largest single convention centers in the country, Cvent listed Washington as number #2 meeting place in the country after Orlando.
Cvent's Top 50 Meeting Destinations in the United States | Cvent
2. Transit- Better public transit system as obviously Metro is #2 in the country. Beyond that though DC has the 3rd largest bike share in U.S. (NYC, Chicago), DC circulator bus, and Metrobus is the 6th largest bus system in the nation, i don't even think Seattle cracks the top 15. Union Station arguably the outer fringes of downtown but is steps away from the Capitol Building is the 2nd busiest train station in America after Grand Central Station, and will widen that gap of places after it over the next 30 years.
3. Verizon Center- Within downtown hosts to numerous concerts and events across the street from National Portrait Gallery and Spy Museum. Year round hosts to NBA, NHL, NCAA basketball, and WNBA sporting events, and this is just the downtown stadium.
4. Largest museum complex in the world- This isn't even a comparison as DC blows every other city in the country out in this category as well.
5. Multiple large venues for cultural events including Shakespeare Theater, Kennedy Center, Historic Ford's Theater where Lincoln was shot, The National Building Museum with so much more, and if we are including SW Waterfront area which is only blocks south of the Washington Monument this adds the Arena Stage venue. Obviously this is not branching all the way off into the neighborhoods of DC where there are even more venues alike and DC continues to separate itself from Seattle.
Well that's at least my five there, since I knew you wouldn't be able to compare that we'll just leave it there. Honestly there was just a DC vs Seattle thread that covered all this, DC was ahead by a 2/1 margin as it should be. We're really off topic here as this thread is about "big city feel."
I understand though basically there is no rebuttle or argument any person can make for Seattle having a more "big city feel" than DC. After the information I provided it would be foolish to assume that obviously.
Last edited by the resident09; 02-01-2015 at 01:43 PM..
This again is why I prefer dt Seattle. Everything in close proximity. Seahawks, Mariners, waterfront, major shopping, Pike Place Market, movie houses, Symphony Hall, 5th Avenue Theater, Paramount, Act, Convention Center, ferry rides, boat rides and water taxis, museums, all just short walks away. Even Amtrak is close.
I still say they both have big city feels. But MDALLSTAR if you think all the development you always post is so great please don't include that Union Market thing. It's no more than an overpriced, yuppiefied food court. And the dang thing isn't even open on Mondays. It's just awful.
Seattle feels more vibrant in a smaller area but DC gets it overall.
Still like Seattle more though. The government presence is like a major handicap for DC. Sadly it isn't much without it which hurts any sort of substantial local character or flavor. Seattle on the other hand is full of it.
Seattle is nice and it's definitely in the top 10 but there's no comparison with DC as far as which city offers a bigger city lifestyle honestly. DC is more urban, more walkable, better downtown scene, metro access, and of course the job market (although Seattle's job market is pretty good as well) not to mention DC has urban suburbs as well.
I feel like Seattle kind of lacks a lot of what makes for a "big city" lifestyle.
This again is why I prefer dt Seattle. Everything in close proximity. Seahawks, Mariners, waterfront, major shopping, Pike Place Market, movie houses, Symphony Hall, 5th Avenue Theater, Paramount, Act, Convention Center, ferry rides, boat rides and water taxis, museums, all just short walks away. Even Amtrak is close.
I still say they both have big city feels. But MDALLSTAR if you think all the development you always post is so great please don't include that Union Market thing. It's no more than an overpriced, yuppiefied food court. And the dang thing isn't even open on Mondays. It's just awful.
The market is just a small tiny piece of that neighborhood. Jose Andres is opening a Latin Eatley and there are residential, office, hotels, and more retail/food options coming. That is going to be one of the most famous food destination type of neighborhoods in the nation when all is said and done. We can revisit this statement in 10 years to see if I was right.
Also, all major cities span miles in their urban footprint options. Is the island of Manhattan compact at over 20 sq. miles? Is Paris compact? How about London? The only places that pack all they have to offer into 1 sq. mile are small cities with even smaller regions.
This again is why I prefer dt Seattle. Everything in close proximity. Seahawks, Mariners, waterfront, major shopping, Pike Place Market, movie houses, Symphony Hall, 5th Avenue Theater, Paramount, Act, Convention Center, ferry rides, boat rides and water taxis, museums, all just short walks away. Even Amtrak is close.
I still say they both have big city feels. But MDALLSTAR if you think all the development you always post is so great please don't include that Union Market thing. It's no more than an overpriced, yuppiefied food court. And the dang thing isn't even open on Mondays. It's just awful.
They both have big city feels but they're not comparable. Seattle is in the same league with Charlotte when it comes to big city feel. DC is often tiered with SF and other cities.
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