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Does anyone else see the similarities between yew, tew etc and the White Baltimore accent?
Many Whites in Baltimore also have a southern twang as well. Marty Bass is a good example. Although, in my experience it is different than the Black Baltimore accent. I don’t think the “yew, tew” words are the same. But both white and black Baltimorians have a southern twang (at least many do).
Naw I think northerness is just more standard speech, certain slang/mannerisms. You can sound like a northern black NYCer (DMX, Russel Simmons, Teyana Taylor) but nothing sound like a ‘White New Yorker’...
Russell Simmons' speech does exhibits characteristics of NYCE. It's certainly apparent in his pronunciations of certain words. He just doesn't sound like Woody Allen, which is what a lot of people here seem to think is a quintessential NY accent.
There's no point getting into the specifics of how this person sounds and how that person sounds. From a linguistic standpoint, many Black New Yorkers have a "New York" way of speaking that sounds very similar to White New Yorkers.
Quote:
The findings in Figure 2 overall help to disrupt the ethnolect/dialect binary, as they show white and non-white speakers who behave similarly with respect to raised BOUGHT, an NYCE feature. Speakers from all ethnic groups in the sample produce raised BOUGHT, particularly older speakers of all ethnic backgrounds. In addition, Asian and Latino speakers show similar trends to white speakers in apparent time, reversing the change in progress for raised BOUGHT (see also Hall-Lew and Wong, this volume).In contrast, African American Lower East Siders are distinct from other groups in showing a trend of BOUGHT-raising over time, so that young African American Lower East Siders produce some of the highest means for BOUGHT in the sample.
The bolded is one thing I've noticed in older Black Bostonians, New Yorkers and Philadelphians. And I'm talking about the ones who grew up during the 40s through 70s and are generally not the children of immigrants (which is fairly recent even for NYC). My theory for why this is the case is that they lived under less segregated conditions than Black people in other parts of the country.
Many Whites in Baltimore also have a southern twang as well. Marty Bass is a good example. Although, in my experience it is different than the Black Baltimore accent. I don’t think the “yew, tew” words are the same. But both white and black Baltimorians have a southern twang (at least many do).
Marty Bass isn't from Baltimore. He's from Louisville Kentucky. He didn't come to Baltimore until after he graduated college.
Russell Simmons' speech does exhibits characteristics of NYCE. It's certainly apparent in his pronunciations of certain words. He just doesn't sound like Woody Allen, which is what a lot of people here seem to think is a quintessential NY accent.
There's no point getting into the specifics of how this person sounds and how that person sounds. From a linguistic standpoint, many Black New Yorkers have a "New York" way of speaking that sounds very similar to White New Yorkers.
The bolded is one thing I've noticed in older Black Bostonians, New Yorkers and Philadelphians. And I'm talking about the ones who grew up during the 40s through 70s and are generally not the children of immigrants (which is fairly recent even for NYC). My theory for why this is the case is that they lived under less segregated conditions than Black people in other parts of the country.
Russel Simmons , Denze, and Jay Z are not good examples on my end.
Let’s say Diddy-to me he just sounds very northeastern like Uptown NYC/CT/NNJ or Boston. ASAP Rocky or Dave East as well
100% agree with the older black folks from those cities.
My mom and her siblings act like the letter R doesn’t exist at all. But the difference is they don’t exaggerate there sounds or sound nearly as nasally as their white Boston counterparts. It’s like standard AAVE non-rhoticism but more consistent and in a northern accent.
The black folks from Boston in the 40s/50s really sound basically textbook Boston accent. Basically because they lived in a virtual see of whiteness in all direction for 100+ miles.
I’d say people born in the 70s and raised in the 1980s Boston have it to a lesser extent. More southern influence crime in during the 60s-70s.
Us black millenials (80-2000/85-2000) have the more modern accent like the ones I showed earlier. That Juwan Gooding video-I could hear that kid immediately and know he was from Boston, easily. I think my generation statistically was the blackest to ever be raised in Boston and there was a sweet spot of dense enough black populations, larger African American presence, minimal gentrification and white flight that allowed us to develop our own sort of ‘blaccent’ during that time.
This youngest generation of kids have no ‘accent‘ at all or sound like modern New Yorkers. Their better educated, better traveled and watch more social media of other states and stuff than I did in the early 2000s. Also the lionshare of Boston kids now are Latino or Black West Indian descended. connections to Irish and African American Bostonians of yesteryear is tenuous at best.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 06-25-2020 at 01:20 PM..
Baltimore and Philly clearly are closer to one another, while still being distinctive in their own right. J Hudson, has the most twang here out of these examples. Pronouncing "sing" like "Sang", and "child" like "Chiild".
Baltimore and Philly clearly are closer to one another, while still being distinctive in their own right. J Hudson, has the most twang here out of these examples. Pronouncing "sing" like "Sang", and "child" like "Chiild".
No....here is Tarji P Henson. You can tell she's not even talking with much slang, and you can hear her "Sang" Chilld" southern accent.
Here is Chaka Khan (another native black Chicagoan) who definitely has some southern twang. But her's is a lot less than DC and Baltimore blacks in your example.
Here is Chaka Khan (another native black Chicagoan) who definitely has some southern twang. But her's is a lot less than DC and Baltimore blacks in your example.
Out of all of the examples, DC and Baltimore blacks are the most southern sounding. Definitely moreso than Philly but even more than Chicago.
So, black Chicagoans sound less southern than black people from Philly as well? If so, does the Black Philly accent have a twang, since you acknowledged that Chicago does?
You're hearing The Black Chicago accent completely different than the rest of the people in this thread.
So, black Chicagoans sound less southern than black people from Philly as well? If so, does the Black Philly accent have a twang, since you acknowledged that Chicago does?
You're hearing The Black Chicago accent completely different than the rest of the people in this thread.
No....Black Chicagoans don't sound less southern that black people from Philly.
I have even said in this thread, that you will find more "deep south" sounding blacks in Chicago than you will in Baltimore and DC.
But the point I am making is that you will find a larger portion of blacks with no southern twang to their accent in Chicago than you will in Baltimore or DC. Philly, NY/NJ, Boston/New England are in a different ballpark from Chicago, Baltimore, or DC. Those are true northeast cities.
As far as whites go, whites from Chicago, Philly, NY/NJ, Boston/New England have NO southern accent. Whites from Baltimore and DC (the DMV) are a mixed bag. Not all have a southern accent, but they are not 100% southern-free like Chicago, Philly, NY/NJ, and Boston/New England. These cities (Chicago, Philly, NY/NJ, and Boston/New England) are much more similar from a white perspective in terms of large historic white ethnic groups like Italian, Polish, Irish, Greek, etc. Those are groups that traditionally have no southern twang to their accents.
As far as blacks go, the only fair comparisons is between Chicago, DC, and Baltimore when it comes to southern accents. On average, you will find the most "deep southern" accents in Chicago, but you will also find more blacks with ZERO southern twang to their accent as well (think Bryant and Greg Gumbel, Michael Wilbon, Doc Rivers, and countless other local blacks who you would not recognize by name). In DC and Baltimore, many blacks will have at least some southern twang to their accent. There is a smaller proportion of blacks in Baltimore and DC with NO/ZERO southern twang to their accent as compared to Chicago.
Why is it that whenever these threads come up people start posting videos of celebrities and politicians? These people generally do not have accents. A better gauge of an area's accent would be YouTube interviews of the working class to working class poor. So while you're not going to hear much of a local accent in Susan Rice (DC native) or Jennifer Hudson (Chicago native), you will often hear it in the residents of Barry Farms or former residents of Cabrini Green (watch Hoop Dreams, for example).
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