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Maybe-I can't imagine being somewhere people even moderately cared about college sports-let alone Columbus
Buffalo-Are people investing in a sub-275k person city in a state with declining prospects and population in a cold market? With Detroit and NYC relatively nearby?
College sports are absolutely massive in most of the midwest, and in Columbus in particular.
Ohio State University drew over 100k fans/game for football one year ago (3rd in the NCAA) and nearly 15k fans/game in basketball (18th in the NCAA).
It's a culture/obsession that I think is hard for people from the east coast to understand as the significance of college sports pales in comparison to professional in that region.
I grew up around this culture in Ohio and live in NYC now, so I feel like I have a pretty good idea of how it is perceived in different places.
College sports teams (esp football and basketball) in the Major D1 cities are the pro teams. The power college football schools have larger capacity stadiums than their pro counterparts.
Cleveland, OH (lose NBA)
Cincinnati, OH (lose MLB)
Detroit, MI (lose NBA or MLB)
Green Bay, WI (lose NFL)
Pittsburgh, PA (lose MLB or NHL)
Buffalo, NY (lose NFL)
Chicago, IL (1 less baseball team)
Milwaukee, WI (lose NBA)
GAIN 1 or more teams:
Austin, TX (add NFL or NBA)
Portland, OR (add NFL)
Charlotte, NC (add MLB)
Atlanta, GA (add NHL)
Nashville, TN (add MLB)
Houston, TX (add NHL)
Louisville, KY (add NBA)
Las Vegas, NV (add NBA)
Salt Lake City, UT (add NFL)
Seattle, WA (add NHL)
San Diego, CA (add NFL)
San Antonio, TX (add NFL or MLB)
Orlando, FL (add NFL or MLB or NHL)
Basically the trend to lose teams follows major loss in population in the northeast and midwest "rust belt," and follows major gains in population with the south and the west.
Chicago still has 9.5 million in the metro area. More than enough for 2 teams, and the surrounding area. Dream on.
Detroit is somewhat stagnant in terms of overall growth, and losing people.
Nashville is growing explosively and has a robust job market and is one of the "hot cities buzzing" right now.
I'm not sure what that has to do anything.
First of all, for the foreseeable future, Detroit will remain a top 16 metro area (only Minneapolis and Seattle are in striking distance of passing it up). It's going to take at least a couple more decades for any of the smaller "booming" sunbelt cities such as Nashville to catch up to it in population and economic size.
Second, many folks in this thread are assuming that none of these professional sports organization will expand their number of franchises at all in the coming years. It's possible for Nashville and any other generic booming sunbelt city you can name to get a team without taking away from Detroit's.
I get Detroit is the proverbial black sheep on this forum because of the city proper's vast abandonment, high crime rate and high poverty rate. And I'm the last person to defend the city. But at a certain point, the rampant downplaying of its still impressive scale on a metro level by folks on C-D can only be explained as willful ignorance.
Chicago still has 9.5 million in the metro area. More than enough for 2 teams, and the surrounding area. Dream on.
True. In fact honestly a good case could be made Chicago should have another NFL or NBA team seeing how massive the Bulls and especially the Bears fanbases are. It would probably be a good thing for the city too in regards to sports. One team with such a massive market allows teams/owners to be completely mediocre and cheap, like the Chicago Bears. Another team provides competition for the other, and a unique rivalry. Which is why the 2 team 1 city dynamic works in cities large enough.
Cleveland, OH (lose NBA)
Cincinnati, OH (lose MLB)
Detroit, MI (lose NBA or MLB)
Green Bay, WI (lose NFL)
Pittsburgh, PA (lose MLB or NHL)
Buffalo, NY (lose NFL)
Chicago, IL (1 less baseball team)
Milwaukee, WI (lose NBA)
GAIN 1 or more teams:
Austin, TX (add NFL or NBA)
Portland, OR (add NFL)
Charlotte, NC (add MLB)
Atlanta, GA (add NHL)
Nashville, TN (add MLB)
Houston, TX (add NHL)
Louisville, KY (add NBA)
Las Vegas, NV (add NBA)
Salt Lake City, UT (add NFL)
Seattle, WA (add NHL)
San Diego, CA (add NFL)
San Antonio, TX (add NFL or MLB)
Orlando, FL (add NFL or MLB or NHL)
Basically the trend to lose teams follows major loss in population in the northeast and midwest "rust belt," and follows major gains in population with the south and the west.
You do realize that 'team loyalty' is pretty entrenched. If population gain in a metro is primarily due to migration, those individuals generally still support their 'original home' team. For example, go to a pro game in Phoenix and take note of all of the away team jerseys being worn by fans.
When you mention population gains, I'm not sure you realize how 'large' a market must be to support a professional sports team, especially the 4 majors (NBA,NFL,MLB & NHL). Out of the cities you listed for gains, Houston and possibly Seattle or Atlanta would be the only metros that could support an additional franchise. No disrespect, but Austin and Nashville's population gains are 'a drop in the bucket' for substantiating a franchise expansion.
Maybe-I can't imagine being somewhere people even moderately cared about college sports-let alone Columbus
Buffalo-Are people investing in a sub-275k person city in a state with declining prospects and population in a cold market? With Detroit and NYC relatively nearby?
You are making the mistake a lot of people make when they just look at city proper or metro area for Buffalo. Again, you are talking about a metro that is the 3rd smallest in land area for those with at least 1 million people. Right next to it is the Rochester metro, which also has over 1 million people and a region of Canada with another 1 million people within an hour of Buffalo. This isn't including other nearby areas. So, the Bills have enough of a population within a reasonable drive to attend 8-11 games.
To be honest, Hockey shouldn't even be conversation in regards to Buffalo.
NY State has almost 20 million people in it and a land size on par with NC and MS. Even if you take NYC out of it, it still is a state with about 11-11.5 million people.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 01-13-2021 at 01:26 PM..
Ok so the current composition of teams by state/province (with market at front) is as follows (announced teams that haven't played yet count):
Washington - 4 (Seattle NHL, NFL, MLB, MLS)
Oregon - 2 (Portland NBA, MLS)
California - 19 (Los Angeles MLS, MLS, NFL, NFL, MLB, MLB, NHL, NHL, NBA, NBA; Bay Area NBA, MLB, MLB, NFL, MLS, NHL; Sacramento MLS, NBA; San Diego MLB)
Nevada - 2 (Las Vegas NFL, NHL)
Arizona - 4 (Phoenix NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA)
Utah - 2 (Salt Lake City NBA, MLS)
Colorado - 5 (Denver MLB, NBA, NFL, MLS, NHL)
Texas - 11 (Dallas NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL, MLS; Houston NBA, NFL, MLB, MLS; Austin MLS; San Antonio NBA)
Oklahoma - 1 (Oklahoma City NBA)
Louisiana - 2 (New Orleans NFL, NBA)
Missouri - 6 (St. Louis MLS, NHL, MLB; Kansas City NFL, MLB, MLS)
Minnesota - 5 (Minneapolis - MLS, NBA, NHL, NFL, MLB)
Wisconsin - 3 (Milwaukee NBA, MLB; Green Bay NFL)
Illinois - 6 (Chicago MLB, MLB, NHL, NFL, MLS, NBA)
Indiana - 2 (Indianapolis NFL, NBA)
Michigan - 4 (Detroit NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL)
Ohio - 8 (Cleveland NFL, MLB, NBA; Columbus MLS, NBA; Cincinnati MLS, NFL, MLB)
Pennsylvania - 8 (Philadelphia MLB, MLS, NFL, NBA, NHL; Pittsburgh NFL, MLB, NHL)
New York - 12 (New York City NFL, NFL, MLB, MLB, MLS, MLS, NBA, NBA, NHL, NHL; Buffalo NFL, NHL)
Massachusetts - 5 (Boston NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS)
New Jersey - 1 (Newark NHL)
Maryland - 2 (Baltimore NFL, MLB)
DC - 5 (Washington NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS)
North Carolina - 4 (Charlotte NBA, NFL, MLS; Raleigh NHL)
Georgia - 4 (Atlanta NBA, NFL, MLB, MLS)
Florida - 11 (Miami NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL, MLS; Tampa NFL, MLB, NHL; Orlando NBA, MLS; Jacksonville NFL)
Tennessee - 4 (Nashville NBA, NFL, MLS; Memphis NBA)
Ontario - 5 (Toronto NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS; Ottawa NHL)
Quebec - 2 (Montreal NHL, MLS)
Manitoba - 1 (Winnipeg NHL)
Alberta - 2 (Calgary NHL; Edmonton NHL)
British Columbia - 2 (Vancouver NHL, MLS)
use it as a reference point
But overall again I think that many of these are fine. I would say that in the future if I was a sports executive I would be tapping into markets like Las Vegas, Portland, Austin, San Antonio, and either Norfolk or Richmond, as these areas have sizeable populations, and in most cases do not have many teams near them or have any teams at all. The other locations are fine to me though.
Maybe-I can't imagine being somewhere people even moderately cared about college sports-let alone Columbus
Alabama says "Hello!" (Far more Crimson Tide fans there throughout the state than Falcons fans for example, and they did have a super-spreader celebration in Tuscaloosa the other night when they beat Ohio for the College Football Playoff National Championship) Kentucky too (for Basketball at least). Lots of Southern and Midwestern states are crazy about college sports (Iowa comes to mind for example) more than pro sports. Mississippi has a lot of New Orleans Saints fans, but they definitely prefer watching Ole Miss or Mississippi State Football. Columbus will probably never really have an NFL team due to the fact that it's between Detroit, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh, plus they're all about Ohio State sports there. Contrast that to Indianapolis next door.
Quote:
Buffalo-Are people investing in a sub-275k person city in a state with declining prospects and population in a cold market? With Detroit and NYC relatively nearby?
Buffalo has a metro area of 1 million people, and Rochester (with a metro of about the same population) is close enough and has a major Bills fanbase there. Quiet as it's kept, one of the reasons why the Bills are still there is due to Rochester's white-collar based corporate base/sponsorships/wealth in comparison to Buffalo.
Last edited by biscuit_head; 01-13-2021 at 01:53 PM..
Alabama says Hello. Kentucky too (for Basketball at least). Lots of Southern and Midwestern states are crazy about college sports more than pro sport.
Buffalo has a metro area of 1 Million people, and Rochester is close enough and has a major Bills fanbase there. Quiet as it's kept, one of the reasons why the Bills are still there is due to Rochester's white-collar based corporate base/sponsorships/wealth in comparison to Buffalo.
Exactly...People may not realize that the 2 cities are only a little over an hour from each other. So, this has to be considered, along with the fact that Canada's most affluent economic region is right next to it.
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