Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Lol no need to even bother with that dude. He lost all credibility immediately in this discussion by claiming that SOMA shuts down at night and that people don't live in downtown lol. That dude's just an uninformed troll, pay it no mind.
But he was right about BART trains shutting down after midnight (some at 7pm) and bars closing at 2am.
Just out of curiosity what are the boundaries used for determining Center City's population? I seem to recall reading somewhere that it extends into the residential row house areas south of South Street. Not that there is anything wrong with it, I am just curious.
Since there are no clear standards for determining what constitutes a DT, IMO it seems like there is an apples to oranges comparison going on when people talk about a given city having the XX largest downtown pop.
A better way maybe, how many people live within say 3 miles of a certain point. Or alternately, you could use built environment or a density threshold to mark downtown populations.
Yes, cause in most cities, Rich White People are too scared to venture into their downtowns.
LOL. Perhaps many years ago that statement was true. I honestly can't think of a single city that hasn't had some type of major downtown redevelopment in the last 10-15 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair
Furthermore, this is SF we're talking about and SF has more rich minorities than Philly does rich white people.
LOL again. That's too funny, considering Philadelphia has nearly twice as many residents. Not to mention SF doesn't have as many minorities either.
I honestly can't think of a single city that hasn't had some type of major downtown redevelopment in the last 10-15 years.
Yet most downtowns are still pretty much 9-5 places. Although I like the change.
Quote:
LOL again. That's too funny, considering Philadelphia has nearly twice as many residents. Not to mention SF doesn't have as many minorities either.
Its just the nature of the two cities. They are just different.
White Households in Philadelphia earning $100,000+ 21,805
Minority Households in SF earning $100,000+ 32,631
You point out Black Friday as if Philly could even have one. The stores are all at a suburban mall. Its unthinkable in the Bay Area that Chanel would be anywhere but Union Square. Its unthinkable in the Bay Area that Prada would choose a damn mall over The City. Its incomprehensible that the focal point of local retail would be in a mall away from downtown.
So, because the Philly area's upscale retail is not nearly as concentrated as it is in the Bay Area, that makes its downtown automatically lackluster? Your criteria is extraordinarily narrow -- and not to mention severely out of touch -- if you think catering to a relatively limited demographic of affluent consumers is what truly makes a downtown. For example, history, cultural institutions, museums and transit options in downtown Philadelphia blow SF out of the water, yet I don't believe SF lacks viability/vibrancy overall in comparison to Philly.
It's a matter of weighing different strengths and weaknesses. While downtown SF seems like a really cool/vibrant place (especially for shopping), to claim it is in a position superior enough to throw such large stones at Philadelphia is nothing more than an exercise in hubris.
Yes, I'm out of touch a major downtown that doesnt feel complete to me.
Quote:
if you think catering to a relatively limited demographic of affluent consumers is what truly makes a downtown.
But that's just it. SF caters to all demographics, Philly sends its affluent consumers to King of Prussia. Please explain the logic in that?
Quote:
For example, history, cultural institutions, museums and transit options in downtown Philadelphia blow SF out of the water, yet I don't believe SF lacks viability/vibrancy overall in comparison to Philly.
1. History? People on the East Coast love to brag about history but they fail to realize that other places have histories too. In fact the significant things that happened in Philadelphia happened before anywhere in the west was even part of the country. The Gold Rush is a much bigger deal to California's history than anything that happened in Philly. And SF was the epicenter of that and SF was the harbinger of a bigger migratory movement than any that EVER originated out of Philadelphia. Im talking about the diaspora of Asians in this nation-that began in SF, which had the first asian community outside of that continent. Your welcome.
2. Cultural Insititutions? Are you talking about Symphony, Opera and Ballet? SF blows Philly out of the water in all 3. Or are you talking about diversity, because SF is a global magnet that Philadelphia hasnt been since the early 1800s.
3. Museums? Downtown's SFMOMA is just as highly regarded as any museum in Philadelphia if not more so. DT SF also has the Jewish Museum, the Asian Museum, a really interesting Cartoon Art Museum as well as a Cable Car Museum, not to mention countless art galleries. No, I think the art scene probably tops Philly too.
4. Transit Options in Downtown? SF is so compact that transit is a short walk away from anywhere. BART, MUNI Metro and CalTrain all run trains into DT SF and BART carries people a much further distance than any intercity rail system in Philly.
These are 2 to scale maps of SF and Philly's subways.
Furthermore, SF has more people using public transit to get to work than Philly does. Percentage of Workers who use Public Transit, 2008
San Francisco City 31.9%
Philadelphia City 26.8%
Quote:
It's a matter of weighing different strengths and weaknesses. While downtown SF seems like a really cool/vibrant place (especially for shopping), to claim it is in a position superior enough to throw such large stones at Philadelphia is nothing more than an exercise in hubris.
Well it takes nothing more than a visit to both to decide which is better.
And someone stating that SF is much better really isnt hubris, but rather an opinion. All cities are not the same and neither are their downtowns.
I like Downtown Philly, please don't get me wrong. But imo SF is better. A lot better. You are more than entitled to disagree.
But that's just it. SF caters to all demographics, Philly sends its affluent consumers to King of Prussia. Please explain the logic in that?
There are a fair amount of upscale stores in DT Philly -- rainrock listed a few. I'm not saying it's on a level of SF, but to say there's no upscale value to stores like Tiffany's, Burberry, Barney's COOP, Tumi, True Religion, etc., is ridiculous. I don't like that a lot of the upscale retail is in the suburbs, either, but you talk as if you've never ventured onto Walnut Street.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair
1. History? People on the East Coast love to brag about history but they fail to realize that other places have histories too. In fact the significant things that happened in Philadelphia happened before anywhere in the west was even part of the country. The Gold Rush is a much bigger deal to California's history than anything that happened in Philly. And SF was the epicenter of that and SF was the harbinger of a bigger migratory movement than any that EVER originated out of Philadelphia.
2. Cultural Insititutions? Are you talking about Symphony, Opera and Ballet? SF blows Philly out of the water in all 3. Or are you talking about diversity, because SF is a global magnet that Philadelphia hasnt been since the early 1800s.
3. Museums? Downtown's SFMOMA is just as highly regarded as any museum in Philadelphia if not more so. DT SF also has the Jewish Museum, the Asian Museum, a really interesting Cartoon Art Museum as well as a Cable Car Museum, not to mention countless art galleries. No, I think the art scene probably tops Philly too.
1.) National Museum of Jewish American history is currently under construction:
2.) The fact that you're not even conceding history to Philadelphia in this discussion is extremely distorted. That you're comparing something like the gold rush to the significance of a city steeped in the founding of this country shows glaring West Coast bias.
3.) Ever hear of the Rodin museum -- largest collection outside of Paris? How about the under construction Barnes? Sorry, but again, you're pretty off base if you think SF has any sort of advantage on the arts front.
4.) Immigration is irrelevant to this discussion. No one ever claimed that Philadelphia has a stronger immigrant presence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair
Furthermore, SF has more people using public transit to get to work than Philly does. Percentage of Workers who use Public Transit, 2008
San Francisco City 31.9%
Philadelphia City 26.8%
We're not talking about transit use, but transit availability. Two different things. Philadelphia has a multi-modal system utilizing subway, regional rail, bus trolley in its downtown:
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
