Is Cleveland bad or is it just perception? (Lakewood, Euclid: section 8, crime)

[creativemama2]

Wow, I didn't mean to start a flame thread. I don't think I'm personally holding Cleveland back. I just believe that Cleveland could make more progress than it's making.

To answer your question, my kids have missed 10 days of school this years because of building problems. Is that too many? If the district says it has no money to fix the problems, how many will it be next year? Parent involvement is vital, but the city still needs to address the quality of our schools.

CNN has a Cost of Living comparison tool here. Cost of living: Compare prices in two cities - CNNMoney.com. Major east and west coast cities are more expensive than Cleveland. This shows cities like Dallas, Austin, Houston, Atlanta, and Charleston as cheaper.

BTW, I didn't say Cleveland was boring. I reported a Channel 5 study that 67% of Clevelanders thought so.

[andrew0816]

^I didn't mean that all of Cleveland's problems are your fault and I am pretty sure that my post didn't read that way. However, if it did, then I would like to clarify my ending statement. What I meant was that people who like to point out everything that is wrong with the city, yet do nothing to combat those problems, hold the region back. Not that I am saying that you aren't doing anything, which I guess you could have gotten from my post, which I am sorry if that is what you thought I meant.

I also admit that I don't know much about Cleveland schools, but I can't imagine that all the buildings are falling apart. The issues that you mentioned, are they isolated to one or a few schools, or does it happen throughout the district? Also, what could be done to fix these schools? Have you looked at other options (Charter Schools, privates schools) and are they realistic alternatives (for you)?

The cost of living is relatively cheap and all (or most) of those cities that you mentioned don't have the amenities that Cleveland does (metro parks, RTA, etc), so that needs to be taken into account (and from personal experience, the costs of those cities are hidden). Also, I would take any study or poll with a grain of salt. Most of them are not accurate and have odd methods of attaining data.

I guess I disagree with those Clevelanders who were represented in that poll.

Again, sorry for any misconception, I just wanted to clear up the inaccuracies of some of your claims.

[Peregrine]

The schools are currently all undergoing major repair and renovations thanks in part to the bond issue we passed 2 years ago. The one I see regularly on W140th is beautifull. This is an ongoing project that should improve every school that was in trouble. THe final price tag is over a billion dollars ($350K direct from taxpayers and the rest from the state government and the stimulus bill).

Seems all the news ever reports on is what is wrong with our schools. There are 2 reasons why Cleveland schools get a bad rap: Test scores and dropout rate (which in turn hurt the graduation rate). You can blame test scores on the schools but not dropout rates.

Why do we never hear about the good things? You have to find those on your own. I don't remember any of these stories on the local news...

The Greater Cleveland Council of Teachers of Mathematics sponsored a regional math competition at John Hay High School. Newton D. Baker had twelve 7th and 8th graders competing, who went on to win two 1st and 2nd place trophies and two blue ribbons. They were competing against 5 other CMSD schools, 3 Catholic schools and 1 charter school.

Twenty-four John Hay students shouted in celebration over their 1st place victory in the Municipal Court Mock Trial Competition. A total of 380 CMSD students from various high schools participated in the competition, being judged on their ability to demonstrate content knowledge of the law, presentation of themselves and their case and courtroom manners and etiquette

The Cleveland School of the Arts Lower Campus is the recipient of the 10th Annual Panasonic National School Change Award. The award is presented to six schools from across the country for having significantly changed; it is the only award of its kind. Additionally, this is the first time that a school from Ohio has received this recognition! A national panel of judges selected CSA amongst 24 competing finalists

Many more here:
Snippets_ofSuccess

Again... no rosy glasses here. I know things aren't GREAT at CMSD... but it is better then it has been in a long time and I sincerely believe it's only getting better.

[mdmagana]

I don't live in Cleveland, but I suspect it's exaggerated. I have friends in Youngstown and visit twice and year. I always take little day trips to Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Both cities are so much better than I ever expected! Growing up in Orange County, CA I had negative perceptions of both cities before I went to them. Again, I don't live there, but both cities are so much cleaner than I expected and there was lots going on. (Sports, museums, restaurants, malls, etc.) Throw in the relatively affordable cost of living and both Cleveland and Pittsburgh look pretty good. I would live in Cleveland before I would ever move to Los Angeles.

It might just be a "grass is always greener" kind of thing, and I know Cleveland has it's problems. (I drove through East Cleveland... WOW!) The suburbs seems pretty nice and the city has a enough to interest me. I'm in my late twenties now. In a few years, if I could find a good job, I would certainly consider moving to Cleveland.

[mikemeatball]

The one city that you didn't mention that does have a lower COL that I am aware of personally is Memphis because I researched it alot. I almost moved there.
Memphis: 74Memphis actually was the champion of income VS housing price in America. I have been living there for 6 some years.

However, there are not that much business that can have good offer for a job.

Fedex
International paper
UT medical Center and Stjude children hospital (if you are a doctor)

Other than these above, there are really not that much that Memphis can offer.

[sleepy eyes 1979]

Originally Posted by creativemama2

I'm sure it has to be a bit of both, but my perception has gone down in the 20 years I've lived here to the point where I can't stand living here anymore. I think my attitude has been soured by the negative news, results of polls, and jokes about Cleveland.

On News 5 today, they announced that a TripAdvisor.com survey of more than 3,400 respondents said Cleveland is boring. Channel 5 polled Clevelanders and 67% agreed.

Forbes announced the least family friendly cities in the U.S. Cleveland is #5.

Forbes announced the highest taxed cities in the U.S. - Cleveland is #11.America's Best And Worst Cities For Families - Forbes.com
Cuyahoga County is the 4th worst county for carbon monoxide pollution.

Cleveland was the poorest city in the U.S. (Now I think we've "improved" to #2.)

Forbes ranks us 3rd worst in US for Jobs (May, 2009)

Forbes ranked us #8 in Most Overpriced Cities. (Someone at Forbes really hates us.)

We're at the top of the "Least Graduates per School District" list.

The U.S. Census Bureau announced that Cleveland lost nearly 10 percent of its population this decade, the fastest rate of decline of any major American city (except New Orleans).

Author Peter Greenberg went on the today show and listed Cleveland as one of his worst places in his book, "Don't Go There: The Travel Detective's Essential Guide to the Must-Miss Places of the World."

I won't even go into the corrupt government, lack of foresight, anti-regionalism arguing, failing schools. Every day, there's another reason to hate Cleveland, to feel depressed that it's never going to change. Honestly, the city was "turning around" when I came here in 1985 and it's been waiting for that turnaround ever since.

Are there others who didn't grow up here who believe we can recover?

Is there any REAL hope of change? I'd love to hear everyone's opinion.

It has always been my experience that as long as you have some money in your pocket you can always find something to do. Cities are not boring, people are.

[PhillytoCincy]

Memphis....Graceland!

[PhillytoCincy]

Originally Posted by sleepy eyes 1979

It has always been my experience that as long as you have some money in your pocket you can always find something to do. Cities are not boring, people are.

Thats awesome. Very true! People just don't know where to look, or refuse to. But in cities like Cleveland, you don't even have to look hard, thats the thing.

[kerensa]

I think one problem might be that Cleveland is a driving city. There's not much that is concentrated in just one area where you could spend all day. Ohio City/Coventry/Cedar Lee, Chagrin Falls, Shaker Square, W 4th (etc) are all just a few blocks, so you have to constantly drive between all the destinations. There may only be one or two restaurants or shops in one place that are interesting. It also makes it harder if you are new to the city to find the interesting things, because they are not grouped together.

I also think many native Clevelanders rely on the nostalgia factor - they grew up doing this or that, so now it still holds a draw for them, even if it's not that great anymore. Then when they recommend this thing to newcomers (and it sucks now), the newcomers get a bad perception of the city. When we first moved here we quickly learned to avoid all the restaurants recommended by Cleveland natives (example: Corky & Lenny's) as they were almost always atrocious.

[xwideopenskyx]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Now let's talk about just the Westside neighborhoods:
Slavic Vilage: Yes it has gone downhill in some respects but there are still some very promising things going on there making parts of it nicer then it has ever been. There is a 9 hole golf course that wasn't there 20 years ago that was recently named one of the best in the country. The area around the Mill Creek development looks like something right out of the suburbs and includes a 30+ mile park and a nice long (safe) trail through it. Not to mention the very trendy row homes completed recently that people are moving into.


Sorry for the long post. I guess I've just had it with all the negativity in this forum and took it out here. Will Cleveland recover? Compared to 20 years ago it ALREADY has. This is nirvana compared to then. And I firmly believe it will continue.

Someone please tell me why Clevelanders have an inferiority complex?!? It really is true, isn't it?? Well.... not this Clevelander.

Hmmm..........Slavic Village is on the south-east side of Cleveland not the west. Know your city much?

What you call negativity, is marely a difference in opinion. Just because you may favor a particular city doesn't mean that everyone will agree with you. What works for you, doesn't work for others. Get it?

Well, I've heard it all now....LOL...nirvana and Cleveland in one topic?
What are you smoking?........LMBO! Here is the crux of the problem! Over-zealous people like Peregrine already feel that Cleveland is perfect. Why should they work hard to make it any better? Clevelanders are very proud of their city, and that pride blinds them from the stark reality. Before you get your underware in a knot - I am a native Clevelander and I can call it, like it is.