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Just kidding. The reasons are several. The huge decline of the manufacturing base is the first one, but several rust belt cities are doing all right (Pittsburgh, Chicago etc) so that isn't totally it. Lack of decent leadership. People just want to get manufacturing to return, but those jobs are pretty much all gone now. Another reason is the sports teams constantly losing year, after year, after year. All we want is one championship, just one! Not a dynasty, just one effing championship. It sounds superficial, but the constant losing really does take its toll on you year after year.
The main reason is attitude. People in Cleveland just have a *****ty attitude all around and it resonates it the actions and reactions of Clevelanders. Some of it I can't blame people, I mean who would maintain a positive attitude when jobs leave every day and storefronts are decaying all over the place? But no one ever steps up to the plate and does anything. People will say healthcare, well the Cleveland Clinic really treats its employees like crap, and all the good services cater to the rich.
So not to sound all complaining. (any dumbasses can complain, it takes really balls to have good solutions) We need to utilize the waterfront, throw some decent casinos downtown, and build up the flats to the entertainment hotspot that it was in the late '90s. Its a shame what happened down there. That combined with a Cavs title could start Cleveland toward boom times again. Also a dynamic do something MALE mayor who will walk all over city council and get stuff done. (not painting dirt projects like the Waterfront Line and Euclid Corridor)
Lastly you REALLY have to do something about the schools. Parental involvement is truly the key, and until the black community steps up and actually raises their kids, the schools will always be the 800 pound elephant in the room.
Michael do you get off to people bashing Cleveland? ALL of your threads are geared towards a negative aspect of the city. You actively seek out negative comments. Your thread topics are as destructive as they are immature and I for one am sick of seeing them.
YaFace. You are obviously intelligent and have some good ideas. Unfortunatey they are often diminished by your immature and racially insensitive comments, like the one starting your thread -- it was not funny, a turn off and caused me to drift over the rest of your above post. If I were you, I'd stick to bringing ideas to the table and not simply trying to act like some kind of City-Data shock-jock.
I think the reasons for the population decline in Cleveland are; lack of jobs, poor leadership, crime, gangs, high taxes, and poor public schools!
My suggestions!
New leadership!
More tax abatements, and incentives to businesses! Not only to retain existing businesses, but to bring in new businesses! New businesses equals new jobs!
Attract new high tech businesses through tax abatements, and incentives! Manufacturing jobs are gone, so turn Cleveland into a leader in technology!
Lower taxes to spur growth! By continually raising the taxes, you're just forcing more people out! Cleveland has already lost half of its population, and can't afford to lose anymore! Keep the taxes low!
Lower the sales tax to be competitive with surrounding counties! Paying 7.75% sales tax, when other counties are at 6.5% is outrageous! Keep the people shopping in Cleveland, lower the sales tax!
Spend more of the budget on safety and security, take back Cleveland's streets! Everyone should feel safe in their own homes, and neighborhoods! Not having to worry if their kid will be shot just getting off the school bus! Make safety the number one priority!
Zero tolerance for crime and violence!
Go Green! Bring in new green collar jobs, green technology, wind farms on lake Erie, and solar panels. Cleveland could become a leader in the world!
New public education Master Plan! Insure no child is left behind! Allow all high school kids to earn credits towards college! 100 percent attendance rate! Get parents more involved with their kids education! Strive for excellence, anything less is unacceptable!
Market the good things about Cleveland, fix the bad!
Cleveland needs change, if things continue the way they are, things are only going to get worse!
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YaFace
Another reason is the sports teams constantly losing year, after year, after year. All we want is one championship, just one! Not a dynasty, just one effing championship. It sounds superficial, but the constant losing really does take its toll on you year after year.
I can't imagine anyone leaving town just because of losing sports teams. I can see many reasons why people might flee Cleveland, but that isn't one of them.
The main reason is obviously the lack of jobs due to closings, but there are many reasons for why the population is declining.
-Poor public schools. Cleveland schools are some of the worst in the country and are really an embarrassment. Forced busing goes along with that in the past and really started the city losing population at an alarming rate.
-Weather. Many people do not like the weather in Cleveland, namely the long winter, too much snow (for most), and lack of sunshine in the winter.
-Corruption. This ties into most of the others I will list. Cleveland is one of the most corrupt cities in the country as far as our leaders and all the city services.
-Poor city services. Again, this ties into many of the others I will list. The city simply doesn't have enough money to have decent services like police and fire, add to that the corruption. Me along with many family, friends, and people I know have all had bad experiences with this. Namely with the police not showing up for hours, if at all. This leads many to just forget calling the police about more petty crimes or gunshots fired.
-Crime. Cleveland was recently ranked 11th most dangerous city in the country. Again, many of the others tie in and lead to this, or this leads to them. You get robbed, burglarized, gang activity in your neighborhood, police never show up, etc.
-Decay/low quality of life. Many of the others lead to this which leads to even more people moving out of the city. Contrary to what some may think, there are many people who moved out of the city that stayed as long as they could stand it. There's only so much you can take before moving out of the city to the nicer areas in the suburbs (if you can afford it). The low quality of life in most of the neighborhoods is just not worth it to most.
I could go on all day with this, but that's basically why the population is declining so much. It's a combination of many things. The solutions are obvious and they're the opposite of the list above. Fix many of those and we should start seeing the population start increasing. It will take much time and effort. That's for another post though.
Cuyahoga lost 10% of it's population. Lorain County gained 7%.
At least 3% of that gain it probably 3% of Cleveland's loss. Avon and Avon Lake have done a lot recently to shed the "farmland, BFE" image they have had for so long.
Disagree with BelieveinCleve.
- Schools. The entire school system gets a bad rap, yet there are many bright spots. The high schools aren't great but almost all the K-8 schools are actually pretty decent. Main point on schools: the Cleveland Schools have had this bad reputation for a very long time, yet the worst population decrease is relatively very recent. Also with all the Charter Schools recently, Clevelanders have a lot of options for schooling now.
- Corruption. Have you heard about all the corruption going in in NJ? It's happening everywhere, not just here. I think this would rank pretty low on most people's reasons for leaving the area.
- City services? What do you get in Beachwood, besides curbside recycling, that you can't get in Cleveland Proper?
- Crime. *knock on wood* I live in Cleveland proper and I have never been affected by any crimes. I don't even lock my door much of the time. Every major city has problems with crime but not every major city is bleeding population.
- Quality of life. I think the quality of life in Westpark is better then any suburb I have lived in (North Olmsted, Lakewood).
I will agree that some folks have left to find employment elsehwhere. Many (but not all) sector have been hit pretty hard here.
Sports? Please.... That's laughable. Believe it or not there are MANY cities that have it worse then Cleveland.
New Orleans? 4 decades of medicrity with that football team and not even one Conf Championship to show for it.
Atlanta: Sure the Braves had many good years. Championship after championship 11 or 12 all told. Yet only one title? Talk about frustration.
The Hawks have never even been close. The Falcons are just as bad as the Saints.
You say sprawl, which goes right along with many of the things that I said. They wouldn't be building all those new homes if there wasn't people that would move into them, and those people wouldn't move into those homes unless they had some reason to.
As far as why Cuyahoga County as a whole is losing population to other counties is mostly due to the high taxes and combination of the things I mentioned along with it just becoming more "urban".
Then I'll have to disagree with you on those as well.
-Schools. Out of the 8 largest cities in Ohio, Cleveland has the lowest graduation rate by far, nearly 20% Conference to tackle Cleveland schools' low graduation rate - Metro - cleveland.com. Also, out of all the K-8 schools in the Cleveland school district, only 4 were rated above 1/5 (those got a 3/5) (1 in edgewater, 2 in west park, 1 on the eastside). There's a few decent schools, but the far majority are very bad and there have been a lot of people who moved out of the district all together because of that.
-Corruption. Yeah nearly every place has it but very few as bad as Cleveland.
-Poor city services. I was talking about poor services with things like fire and police. In North Ridgeville the police don't take hours to show up for a call, that's if they show up at all in Cleveland.
-Crime. Well then you're very lucky or live in one of the nicest neighborhoods. All of my family and friends in Cleveland have had some crime committed against them. Whether it be getting robbed, burglarized, their car stolen, etc. Many people have moved out because of the crime.
-Quality of Life. Yeah, that part of West park but what about the majority of the city of Cleveland? Where I stayed at off Storer and then Superior the quality of life was real bad.
I'm not so sure about the sports one. I'm sure that has been a few people that moved because of that but not many.
The majority of the ones I mentioned are just smaller reasons though that could contribute to it though. The main one is the loss of jobs/factories closing. We need to diversify our economy and attract new business, but of course that's what we've been trying to do and it's not easy.
I do admit I live in one of the better, if not the best, areas in Cleveland.
High taxes you didn't mention in the original post. Higher taxes I would concede to.
It is a combination of things causing sprawl.
Corruption: Very few as bad as here? In Chicago they were selling Obama's senate seat (among much worse stuff). 44 people indicted in New Jersey so far, including at least 2 mayors. Corruption is everywhere. Just most politco's haven't been caught yet. We should applaud the feds for finally catching the thieving bastards here. lol
Fire/Police: I thought Fire was pretty good. I have no experience calling either department though so I cannot disagree with that.
Crime: My car was broken into 3 different times when I lived in Lakewood for 4 years. We also had an armed gunman running through the neighborhood one night. So in my experience?!? Lakewood is MUCH worse then... well ok... Westpark specifically.
Schools: I have a hard time blaming grad rates on the schools themselves. I 100% blame parents for drop out rates. If I told my mom I was dropping out of school.... fuggedaboutit.
Even though other areas have much higher tax burdens (Chicago), more crime (Chicago), lousy schools (Chicago), 10x the congestion (Chicago), just as bad weather (Chicago) yet they still manage to grow.
I know we hate to be compared to Chicago and it isn't fair as they are 5-6 times larger then we are.... but if they can continue to grow with issues that are even worse then what we have here... maybe it's time to take a closer look at what they are doing right?!?
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Cleveland needs change!
