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Far more people are employed with LA credentials than engineering credentials.
Relatively speaking there aren't many students from the bottom 40% of the income distribution AT college. Much less studying the liberal arts.
That's because more people have LA degrees. But the percentage of unemployed is also much higher for LA than for engineering.
And it's true that there aren't many low-income people in college when compared to middle and high, but there ARE still many there and their numbers are growing every day. I work almost exclusively with low-income and working class college students, so there is no shortage of them.
One of my students recently visited the English department of a local, expensive (but third tier) private school. They encouraged her to come there and major in English lit. They implied there were plenty of jobs she could get. They even suggested she could do their double BA/MA and teach English in community college. This young lady can't write a complete sentence and has an accent so heavy you can barely understand her. She also has a small baby and an unemployed husband. Do you see where I'm going with this and why I am against LA degrees for such a person?
That's because more people have LA degrees. But the percentage of unemployed is also much higher for LA than for engineering.
And it's true that there aren't many low-income people in college when compared to middle and high, but there ARE still many there and their numbers are growing every day. I work almost exclusively with low-income and working class college students, so there is no shortage of them.
One of my students recently visited the English department of a local, expensive (but third tier) private school. They encouraged her to come there and major in English lit. They implied there were plenty of jobs she could get. They even suggested she could do their double BA/MA and teach English in community college. This young lady can't write a complete sentence and has an accent so heavy you can barely understand her. She also has a small baby and an unemployed husband. Do you see where I'm going with this and why I am against LA degrees for such a person?
Yes this is called a sales scam. I agree that as you get further down the quality scale on colleges/universities, you run into shady practices. I just don't understand your point. You shouldn't go to college for LA unless you can get into a decent school without taking on a lot of debt and have the personal freedom to pursue your studies? Well, of course that is obvious.
Also, there is a window in a lifetime for the traditional college experience...if your circumstances have resulted in the closure of that time window, than you really have to weigh the cost/benefit even more.
One of my students recently visited the English department of a local, expensive (but third tier) private school. They encouraged her to come there and major in English lit. They implied there were plenty of jobs she could get. They even suggested she could do their double BA/MA and teach English in community college. This young lady can't write a complete sentence and has an accent so heavy you can barely understand her. She also has a small baby and an unemployed husband. Do you see where I'm going with this and why I am against LA degrees for such a person?
It's the school that's the problem. Not the degree. One would hope that studying lit would help her english skills. If she studies to be a nurse she'll likely stay only semi-literate. BTW I don't doubt she could teach at the local cc...as an adjunct...making $18K a year.
Still waiting for your articles, studies, and statistics ...
It's the school that's the problem. Not the degree. One would hope that studying lit would help her english skills. If she studies to be a nurse she'll likely stay only semi-literate. BTW I don't doubt she could teach at the local cc...as an adjunct...making $18K a year.
Still waiting for your articles, studies, and statistics ...
I have a PhD from a top university, and I teach at the local cc....as an adjunct...making $18K a year.
I would like to have a meaningful discussion about the "entitlement" generation and the problem with many young people pursuing degrees that are not marketable.
Young people today seem to think that Degree = Job and with the increasing number of people going to college the job market is more competitive than ever. What can be done to encourage young people to pursue degrees that will land them a job after college? This issue does not seem to be covered enough. These conversations are not being had at the high school level. I think parents are partly to blame because a lot don't realize how drastically the job market has changed over the years. High schools don't encourage kids to take something marketable, they encourage them to take something "fun" or "interesting". Colleges don't care what you take as long as they get your money.
There are too many kids graduating and crying they can't get a job because they got a BS in Psychology. What can be done? Discuss...
Degrees are not marketable or not marketable, people are marketable or not marketable.
Learning is of value regardless of the discipline. That does not imply that everyone who learns is useful, some are not.
Exactly. Many students don't understand the difference between an interesting course that they enjoy and job field that they can work in.
A college degree is not vocational training. There have always been people who studied liberal arts and they somehow made their way in the world. It is more difficult to get your first job when you have a non specific degree but people do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marie5v
You can love world lit classes, but there is no corresponding job, so after you've enjoyed your 4 years of courses there is nothing there for you to love doing.
Literature majors tend to do well in marketing. There are also many jobs for technical writers. Literature majors do well in those types of jobs as well. Websites have jobs for writers and editors. Any general business job should be open to literature majors. So while there is no job with the specific requirement that a person have a literature major that does not mean there are no jobs that a literature major can obtain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marie5v
This BS about how it's not about getting a job certificate or it's about critical thinking skills (puhlease, I teach undergrads, and they have none no matter what they major in) is nothing but college marketing. It's absurd to suggest that someone should invest 4 years and 50-100K on a program of "study" that isn't related to anything one will actually be doing 40 hours a week for the rest of one's life.
People have been studying things that do not relate directly to the job market for quite some time. Why is it suddenly a problem? College is not vocational training. It just isn't. College may increase a person's earning potential but is not the same thing as getting a vocational certificate. If you want a vocational certificate that's fine, but that is not what college is.
That's because more people have LA degrees. But the percentage of unemployed is also much higher for LA than for engineering.
And it's true that there aren't many low-income people in college when compared to middle and high, but there ARE still many there and their numbers are growing every day. I work almost exclusively with low-income and working class college students, so there is no shortage of them.
One of my students recently visited the English department of a local, expensive (but third tier) private school. They encouraged her to come there and major in English lit. They implied there were plenty of jobs she could get. They even suggested she could do their double BA/MA and teach English in community college. This young lady can't write a complete sentence and has an accent so heavy you can barely understand her. She also has a small baby and an unemployed husband. Do you see where I'm going with this and why I am against LA degrees for such a person?
Her problem is not her LA degree. Her problems are highlighted above in red. My cousin majored in Literature at Dartmouth. He reads and writes exceptionally well. He is doing fine.
Her problem is not her LA degree. Her problems are highlighted above in red. My cousin majored in Literature at Dartmouth. He reads and writes exceptionally well. He is doing fine.
Wait! I can't hack my way through as an English Lit major in a third-rate college, then graduate, and immediately land ass-backwards into a plum job at an English Literature Corporation? Well then studying Liberal Arts is useless!
Worse at helping someone get a job (just based on unemployment statistics).
I know they are not vocational. And I maintain that's it's a moral crime for colleges to accept so much money from poor and working class people to study frivolous subjects that will "enrich" them while they stand in the unemployment line.
I went to a private liberal arts college (graduated '91). There were no engineering degrees offered. Almost all the students graduate with one of your so called 'worthless' degrees. Everyone I know is gainfully employed and a high percentage of them are extremely successful. This includes the Philosophy, English, Art, Music, Psychology, History, Economics and Political Science majors that I know. Again....ALL gainfully employed. NONE living with their parents. None working at McDonald's.
Pull your head out of the sand. Not everyone needs to be or should be a Computer Science or Engineering major.
You don't study history and then go work at the history factory.
Actually they probably do, at least those who are employed by the "winning side".
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