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This is what I saw about pay: "They are well-paid (though Close won’t reveal figures)." Petroleum engineering does have the highest starting salaries in the field. "Bain internships are very well paid. Bevans wouldn’t reveal a number but according to a listing on salary ranking website Glassdoor, Bain MBA interns earn between $10,000 and $12,000 a month." Do note that Glassdoor is self-reports, and they're talking about master's students. And this: "The Capital Fellows Program based in Sacramento, Calif. . . . They get paid a stipend of $1,972 a month and receive six units of graduate-level academic credit in government or public policy." These interns are required to already have a bachelor's degree.
Now "well paid" can mean anything. The slide show indicated all were paid, but no salaries were stated. And keep in mind, the Bain salaries are for master's interns for one company, Bain Capital. The slide show says the internships are 10 weeks. Isn't that Mitt Romney's company?
I got my degree because I had specific career goals in mind. I didn't go to college straight out of high school because I didn't know what I wanted to do at the time. It took me a few years to figure it out.
The purpose of a degree is to prove formal education relating to certain subjects. Most people need it as a stepping stone into their career.
So why would someone go to school when they don't even have a career in mind, and then try to match up jobs with their degree after they graduate? That makes about as much sense as going out and buying a tool for which you have no use for. And then wandering aimlessly around the house trying to find something to fix that requires that tool. It's just non-sense.
Don't tell me it's because they just want to get "educated" or "enlightened". It doesn't take tens of thousands of dollars and years of your life to audit courses or go to the library.
And don't tell me it's because employers are looking for just any degree. The kinds of jobs requiring an arbitrary degree are just more of the same crappy ones you already have access to without a degree.
Many people go straight to college because they don't want to waste years between high school and college, knowing that they will have to go through college anyway. It's as simple as that.
I do agree, however, that students should have a very clear idea as to what professional path they want to purse in life when they apply to college at the end of high-school.
This requires adolescent maturity and drive, however, and most American teenagers are anything but.
Or it might require vigorous parental guidance but in the US parents are supposed to let their children "find themselves" indefinitely until they can make "their own choices".
Never mind letting the child re-invent the wheel like this can become extremely expensive for the poor young dude.
The entire learning and maturation process is very delayed in the US; so many young people finish high-school as complete children who have a whole lot more to grow and a whole lot more to learn before being able to make any decent decision about life.
For most, this delay in maturity can be very COSTLY.
Besides, I've known plenty of people who went to college sure of what they wanted to do and they ended up taking classes in other subjects that changed their minds. They found their passions elsewhere.
I knew someone who was sure that she wanted to be a doctor. But she got a D in Chemistry in college and finally realized that medical school might not be for her.
I knew exactly what I wanted to do when I went to college, and I selected my undergraduate institution (Kenyon College) based on that goal. I wanted to be an English major and a fiction writer. Somewhere along the way I changed to a math/chemistry double major. I got a PhD in biochemistry, but my research was very analytical. I then worked as a postdoc for a physicist doing nanomaterials research. Now, I teach several types of chemistry, I have an analytical chemistry research program, and I consult for engineering companies and mentor electrical engineering graduate students. I am also in my mid thirties, so I expect my career has time to take quite a few more twists and turns. I still write fiction as a hobby, though.
It is not necessary to stick to the plans you make when you are 17-18 years old to have success. A well rounded education is sometimes the best way to prepare for a dynamic career. An 18 year old doesn't know enough about what their interests and skills are best suited for. Sometimes, you need to study a few things in depth to find your passion. I could go on and on about the balance of skills needed to make a sci/tech career work, but I'll just be brief and say that I have found value in every course that I have ever taken, even subjects as unrelated as ancient religions and chaos theory in dynamical systems.
Not everyone is going to be engaged by everything in a liberal arts curriculum, but it seems pretty bad taste to criticize those that are.
Besides, I've known plenty of people who went to college sure of what they wanted to do and they ended up taking classes in other subjects that changed their minds. They found their passions elsewhere.
I knew someone who was sure that she wanted to be a doctor. But she got a D in Chemistry in college and finally realized that medical school might not be for her.
I failed a few classes in college and had to repeat them. In the end, I still graduated with an engineering degree.
Failure and struggle are a part of life. Nothing that is worthwhile comes easily.
Your friend did not try hard enough to achieve her dream and gave up too quickly.
I got my degree because I had specific career goals in mind. I didn't go to college straight out of high school because I didn't know what I wanted to do at the time. It took me a few years to figure it out.
The purpose of a degree is to prove formal education relating to certain subjects. Most people need it as a stepping stone into their career.
So why would someone go to school when they don't even have a career in mind, and then try to match up jobs with their degree after they graduate? That makes about as much sense as going out and buying a tool for which you have no use for. And then wandering aimlessly around the house trying to find something to fix that requires that tool. It's just non-sense.
Don't tell me it's because they just want to get "educated" or "enlightened". It doesn't take tens of thousands of dollars and years of your life to audit courses or go to the library.
And don't tell me it's because employers are looking for just any degree. The kinds of jobs requiring an arbitrary degree are just more of the same crappy ones you already have access to without a degree.
People also go to college for the social connections, alumni connections, to add the college's brand to their resume, to explore their academic interests, and because college graduates continue to demonstrate much higher earning power than high school graduates. While many people on these forums seem to think that those reasons are somehow invalid, the idea that one must go to college with a specific career goal in mind strikes me as excessively rigid and narrow-minded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanguardisle
I agree it makes no sense. Wasted money, still if they feel they must go to college without knowing the exact career they want in life then they should just get a business degree, at least they can get a job with that while still deciding what they want to do.
Business degrees are not necessarily more valuable than any other degree in the arts or social sciences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur
the problem I've found with this is all the extra coursework you have to take when you make the change. You really have to choose your major early to have any kind of smooth progression through college, god forbid you change schools, then you have even more classes to take since they don't usually transfer too well. It's a frekkin' nightmare. Anything to keep kids in school as long as possible to suck as much money out of them as possible.
Most people can take "core" or "general ed" requirements through the first 3-4 semesters without limiting their major choices very much. Transferring can be tricky, and most students would be well-advised to choose a school where they can switch majors without having to go to a different school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa
Many people go straight to college because they don't want to waste years between high school and college, knowing that they will have to go through college anyway. It's as simple as that.
I do agree, however, that students should have a very clear idea as to what professional path they want to purse in life when they apply to college at the end of high-school.
This requires adolescent maturity and drive, however, and most American teenagers are anything but.
Or it might require vigorous parental guidance but in the US parents are supposed to let their children "find themselves" indefinitely until they can make "their own choices".
Never mind letting the child re-invent the wheel like this can become extremely expensive for the poor young dude.
The entire learning and maturation process is very delayed in the US; so many young people finish high-school as complete children who have a whole lot more to grow and a whole lot more to learn before being able to make any decent decision about life.
For most, this delay in maturity can be very COSTLY.
I think that an 18 year old with a clear idea of their professional path is likely delusional--unless they are already deeply involved in an actual career (i.e., top-tier athlete, musician, dancer, actor, etc.). College is, in part, about developing maturity. In some countries high school goes beyond the age of 18. That is a viable alternative, but would be a huge change in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy
I knew exactly what I wanted to do when I went to college, and I selected my undergraduate institution (Kenyon College) based on that goal. I wanted to be an English major and a fiction writer. Somewhere along the way I changed to a math/chemistry double major. I got a PhD in biochemistry, but my research was very analytical. I then worked as a postdoc for a physicist doing nanomaterials research. Now, I teach several types of chemistry, I have an analytical chemistry research program, and I consult for engineering companies and mentor electrical engineering graduate students. I am also in my mid thirties, so I expect my career has time to take quite a few more twists and turns. I still write fiction as a hobby, though.
It is not necessary to stick to the plans you make when you are 17-18 years old to have success. A well rounded education is sometimes the best way to prepare for a dynamic career. An 18 year old doesn't know enough about what their interests and skills are best suited for. Sometimes, you need to study a few things in depth to find your passion. I could go on and on about the balance of skills needed to make a sci/tech career work, but I'll just be brief and say that I have found value in every course that I have ever taken, even subjects as unrelated as ancient religions and chaos theory in dynamical systems.
Not everyone is going to be engaged by everything in a liberal arts curriculum, but it seems pretty bad taste to criticize those that are.
I was saying that the quoted poster nicely illustrated the importance of a well-rounded education and educational flexibility. I'm not quite sure what your point is. The other thread is about three majors that, in terms of post-graduation job placement, offer little distinction from one another (and an OP who appears not to have any particular career path in mind, nor a particular interest in any of the three discussed majors). I do not see the relevance of that thread, if your post is suggesting that there is any.
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