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I don't follow your premise. Are you saying the only purpose of college (undergrad) is to prepare someone for more college (grad) so they can get a job in college (professor)? There is a whole world of professional jobs out there that come from an undergrad college education, not vo-tech and CC. Not arguing against vo-tech, but that the vast majority of college is in that professional arena, neither vo-tech, nor PhD.
No. Research and innovation exists in the private sector as well. That's how companies like Boston Scientific, Honeywell, Lockheed, etc. developed their business model.
It wasn't really until the post-depression and post WW2 era that this notion that everyone must go to college began. Which eventually led to people requiring academic degrees for jobs that previously didn't require them. Combine that with all these new colleges popping up thanks to cheap government funding (post 1870's colleges), and lack of oversight on who can grant degrees, you have the mess we have now.
Now that government funding is drying up, tuition rates are returning to the normal rates. It will be interesting to see what impact that has on schools that don't produce research.
There is a lot of good advice in this thread. I am currently majoring in English at a university and will be graduating in May. My university has a career services office and a website with a search engine only available to current students and alumni. I'm sure the university you went to has something similar. My major adviser sends out emails a couple times a semester with internships and job openings relevant to editing, tutoring, teaching, publishing, sales etc. He also sends emails telling all English majors not to feel like it will be useless upon graduation and lists various things that can be done with it. I'm sure every university is like this.
It's true that the Liberal Arts like History, English, and Psychology aren't as technical as something like accounting or engineering, but they are far from useless. Not everyone excels in heavy math fields like Engineering. I'm not a fan of math myself and have zero interest in being an engineer. I don't care how much it pays. Studying Accounting sounds really boring. I would hate my life if I was stuck crunching numbers everyday. I feel the same way about a Business degree. Most degrees outside of the technical fields I mentioned and a few others are broad and don't translate into any one type of career. Physics, Chemistry, Biology etc are no more likely to land you a job right after graduation than English, History, and Philosophy. Many people seek more education after receiving a bachelors to become doctors, lawyers, and professors at the university and community college level, but there are many that don't. A lot of entry level jobs require degrees and don't care what they are in. With a degree working in these jobs it is more likely that an employee will be promoted into higher level positions over those with no degrees. I know someone with an English degree that moved to the San Francisco Bay Area and works in sales and makes decent money. I know a person with a History degree who works at a library and makes more money than her coworkers who don't have a degree. I know someone who got their degree in Philosophy and is teaching English in Spain.
Nobody is ever too old to get a masters degree. You could always go back to school for something like Information Systems or Library Science or even Law School. Getting a degree is expensive and college is not for everyone, but a degree opens many doors these days and a person with a four-year degree is one step ahead of somebody with only a high school diploma or none at all. Liberal Arts degrees teach things like critical thinking and how to communicate effectively. These are skills most employers want in their employees. Getting a degree also makes a person more well-rounded and able to see other perspectives. That is why degree curriculum requires students to take classes outside their major.
I believe that the people who can't find a job with their Liberal Arts degree after graduation don't try hard enough. You have to put yourself out there. Volunteer and get internships that are closely related to a desirable career path. Network and meet people to make connections with. Some people believe that going to the library and reading books and the internet for hours will teach you everything a degree can, but I don't think so. In college, students network with peers and professionals and get feedback on their work from experienced professors and their own peers. These are things that make a degree better than just relying on a library.
Another thing people with degrees that can't find jobs won't do is move. They often move back to where they grew up expecting there to be jobs waiting for them. You have to be willing to move to another city in your state or even another state to find a job.
There may be people who work at Starbucks with degrees, but maybe that's what they wanted to do. So what? It's their life. Besides Starbucks actually treats their employees well and gives them great benefits from what I hear.
Honestly, I changed my major several times during the course of my college career and the only time emails were sent out to me about jobs or anything at all was when I amjored in business. M y university has a good business school and engineering school and its like they put all their money in those departments and screw everyone else. I am curious as to how the career center would help me. I doubt that they would considering that my university is more of a "commuter school" and I definitely don't want to live back in the small town. I remember that one time I went there for resume help and I was just not agreeing with the changes that they wanted me to make with my resume. They wanted me to put so much information on there, it looked more like a book(even on one page) than anything else. I won't lie, if I had seen that as a manager, I would have thrown it away. As for what the degree can do for you, nope. That is not at my college at all. If you check the catalog or even the website, they mention teaching and thats it.
I actually did move to another city, and I got a decent job for the cost of living at a professional financial management company. The problem is that I answer the phones all day and have to constantly explain the same canned phrases to customer that should have been taking care of their business in the first place. On top of that, we are not allowed to have cell phones(understandable) no books, no toys, nothing in between calls. My last 2 1/2 hours are just dead..sometimes I wonder..is this what I went to college for?
I noticed that you mentioned internships as well. I did not take any internships. The reason for this, is because unlike most normal people, I had no financial or emotional help with my family. I had ONE. ONE shot to do this. I also had no place to go, so I had to make and try to make good grades every semester so I could save up money and not be homeless. I just wasn't able to concentrate and do too well and my grades suffered. I had to go to school, go to work, and keep my grades up, all while trying to not be stressed out that I would be living in my car..and I did that for 4 years.
So no sorry I can't work for free as I didn't have the luxury to do so. Ill have to admit, thats why I had to change my major for business because I just could not concentrate well enough for my classes and its hard to do that when you have being homeless constantly lingering over your head.
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Originally Posted by nightlysparrow
There are personal values and societal values. Sometimes these are in concordance, but sometimes they are in opposition. Some people choose to follow a course of action that bucks society's trends.
And maybe that is the answer to my question
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Originally Posted by aboveordinary
Also I wanted to say that I know what the other forum you're talking about is (I go on it daily) and there is a heavy STEM bias with many posters over there. For better results over there go to the search bar and type in something like "English degree" or "History degree" and you'll get a better idea on what can be done with those degrees.
I am not so sure of that..I do it like this..i look up BA English degree and then the name of the forum. Most of the time its people just wanting to know what someone did with their degree and the answers have been helpful. I don't see too many bad responses on there. The answers I do see are like this: I got a BA in History and now I am a bartender. Stuff like that.
I don't follow your premise. Are you saying the only purpose of college (undergrad) is to prepare someone for more college (grad) so they can get a job in college (professor)? There is a whole world of professional jobs out there that come from an undergrad college education, not vo-tech and CC. Not arguing against vo-tech, but that the vast majority of college is in that professional arena, neither vo-tech, nor PhD.
I think he's talking about LA fields in which a BA in and of itself doesn't really prepare graduates for a specific field. Yes, getting an undergrad in fields like nursing, engineering, computer science, chemistry, etc, does prepare grads for a definite career path. But degrees like anthropology, comparative lit, archaeology, and numerous other LA fields, not so much. With a BA in these fields, in most cases, require either a graduate degree in that or another LA field, or grad school for a specific field like social work.
But getting a bachelors, then going to grad school is a long, expensive process that isn't for everyone, and I don't mean that as a slight either. Some persons do better in a more 'hands-on' field rather than spending so much time with conventional education, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, many persons who don't enjoy and aren't well-suited for college feel pressured into it when they shouldn't be.
You do realize that math and statistics are both liberal arts fields?
Believing in a deity has nothing to do with higher education... unless you're somehow referencing the statistical findings around those who believe in a deity having a lower IQ, on average, than those who don't.
Smart people get liberal arts degrees all the time. They aren't wasting their talent. Wasting their talent would be studying at a low quality institution such as the University of Idaho rather than UMich.
I was all with you until the end...I went to a tier 2 school and now I regret it. I have no faith in this school at all. I should have went to somewhere that was more expensive. I could have gotten a free ride at an Ivy I would think since I was in the honor society and I had a 4.7 gpa when I graduated hs and I graduated in the top 10% of my class, but I left my mother at the time convince me that I needed to stay at home. I was the worst decision that I have ever made. She had ulterior motives for doing what she did which were not nice, but yeah I feel like even tough i graduated, I would have been better off if I had tried to get into a different university.
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Originally Posted by RosieSD
Both of my children (now in their mid-20s) attended liberal arts colleges and majored in subjects most people would feel are "useless". One was a studio art major and one was a sociology major. Both of my kids have EXTREMELY good jobs several years out of college. How?
They didn't just sit around while they were in college thinking their college or their major would guarantee a job. They did internships while in college. They worked while in college. They did research projects with professors. And, they also supplemented the courses in their majors (in subjects they both loved) with courses that gave them real world skills. My studio art major took classes in graphic design and marketing andshe now works in marketing where her creative problem solving skills are highly valued. My sociology major took computer science and statistics classes and now works in human computer interaction research, figuring out how to design software that people want to use.
The truth is, even if you major in a "career oriented" major like business or engineering, you STILL need to do these types of things in order to get a decent job after graduation.
It is OK to major in something you love. Just make sure that you are also using your time in college to build real world skills that you can put on a resume after graduation.
Ok so I read your post and I do have 24 hours in business adminitration, maybe I should play that up on my resume? Its not a minor though, and I didn't graduated with a business degree, but a BA in History so maybe that might help? How did your kids parlay those classes into jos?
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Originally Posted by Mnseca
They do it out of ignorance. The cute girl is in for a major disappointment - there are no publishing house or university jobs for English majors. Those don't exist anymore, and the few that are there are so competitive that she would have had to go to a top top school for a shot, plus have connections.
Those non-subject majors are generally marketed toward people who have very little education and just want a college degree, like older people who never went to college but just want to go back and get a degree, just to have a degree.
I'm not sure what any of it has to do with "following dreams." Unless you are the very best student at the very best school, studying things like history and English beyond a bachelor's degree is nothing but an intellectual luxury that most people can't afford.
I think you are so right, though I do know someone that went and got a Phd in English and now he is teaching at my old university. Especially coming from my university which is only average to begin with, I don't know where she is going with this either, hence why i started this thread.
Its not meant to bash LA majors, not at all, but after all the articles and people saying you an't get a degree in this or that, why major in it? Isn't it just a waste anyway? Like shouldn't people find a major that is comparable to what they want to study?
I actually did move to another city, and I got a decent job for the cost of living at a professional financial management company. The problem is that I answer the phones all day and have to constantly explain the same canned phrases to customer that should have been taking care of their business in the first place. On top of that, we are not allowed to have cell phones(understandable) no books, no toys, nothing in between calls. My last 2 1/2 hours are just dead..sometimes I wonder..is this what I went to college for?
.
Uh, yes.
To quote a line from a movie, "You're in the front door kid. What you do now is up to you."
I actually did move to another city, and I got a decent job for the cost of living at a professional financial management company. The problem is that I answer the phones all day and have to constantly explain the same canned phrases to customer that should have been taking care of their business in the first place. On top of that, we are not allowed to have cell phones(understandable) no books, no toys, nothing in between calls. My last 2 1/2 hours are just dead..sometimes I wonder..is this what I went to college for?
Well, only you can explain what you went to college for. But that's not what an institution of higher education should be preparing you for...
I was all with you until the end...I went to a tier 2 school and now I regret it. I have no faith in this school at all. I should have went to somewhere that was more expensive. I could have gotten a free ride at an Ivy I would think since I was in the honor society and I had a 4.7 gpa when I graduated hs and I graduated in the top 10% of my class, but I left my mother at the time convince me that I needed to stay at home. I was the worst decision that I have ever made. She had ulterior motives for doing what she did which were not nice, but yeah I feel like even tough i graduated, I would have been better off if I had tried to get into a different university.
Someone has filled your head with bull. Percentage wise, very few college grades are at those Ivies. Oh, what, 70% or so of graduates each year come from those middle tier schools. A small percent from the Ivies and top flagships and the rest scattered about. You have a school level that competes with at least 70%, so you're not handicapped by that in the least. The idea that only the Ivies lead to good jobs is bull. You have an education, you have a good paying job by your OP, so stop reading all those "poor me" stories. You are where you are, so start moving up from there.
I was all with you until the end...I went to a tier 2 school and now I regret it. I have no faith in this school at all. I should have went to somewhere that was more expensive.
Sorry to hear that. Top schools are generally cheaper to attend even though they have high sticker prices thanks to generous financial aid and funding.
One of the things I really appreciated about my science degree is how much it has enriched by life.
I can travel throughout the world and look at a ecosystem and pretty much figure out what happened before and where that ecosystem will move in the future. The astronomy class gave me the night sky which makes me feel at home even 12 time zones away. Not to mention geology, etc. etc.
I can't imagine living without that science background. It must be like being blind. You miss so much and have to rely on other senses to fill in the void.
On "critical thinking" skills of liberal arts graduates. We have a little astronomy group in town composed mainly of professionals with science backgrounds.
There are a few liberal arts graduates. It is fun having them in the group. Their thinking is pretty original since it is totally unencumbered by science.
Thinking outside the box!! Actually, it is thinking without a box. But it is original.
There are a few liberal arts graduates. It is fun having them in the group. Their thinking is pretty original since it is totally unencumbered by science.
Thinking outside the box!! Actually, it is thinking without a box. But it is original.
Jon Stewart has talked about his education in a couple interviews. He originally tried to major in chemistry, but switched to psychology because he could write essays, whereas in chemistry they wanted the 'real answer'. He's also stated he didn't find his education particularly useful. While creativity is wonderful, most of what any one individuals thinks of isn't useful or correct, and one of the purposes of science is to discern useful, probably correct ideas.
As someone also with a psychology degree, I appreciate his perspective. With so many LA fields, it's more important to seem as if you understand something than if you actually do. One of the reasons I did fairly well in school is because I have the ability to write in such a way that it convincingly seems as if I understand something really well when in many cases I didn't. Sometimes I did understand, but other times I was just too lazy to prepare, so I pretty much BS'd my way threw it. In most cases it was good enough for at least a B.
But you can't do that with the 'hard' sciences the way you can with humanities and social science. With the natural sciences -esp math- it's painfully evident when someone doesn't understand something; most of the time you can't just BS your way through it.
Last edited by PanapolicRiddle; 12-29-2015 at 11:49 AM..
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He's also stated he didn't find his education particularly useful. While creativity is wonderful, most of what any one individuals thinks of isn't useful or correct, and one of the purposes of science is to discern useful, probably correct ideas.
