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My employer told me to learn Fortran IV in 1973. He did NOT go out and hire a linguist.
Talents are god-given. Some very talented people in computer sciences at the beginning without a background in math and statistics.
Lot more difficult to do that today....now that we are out of the "stone age".
It is true. I have heard that they hired music majors as well. Something about the way music/foreign language majors mind works that allows them to learn the language easily. I read an article about it some years back. Even now, you still don't need a computer science degree to get a programming job, had a friend that did, made 80, then 100k. No degree, only high school.
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Originally Posted by JrzDefector
Look, if you're not confident you're going to do well in school, don't waste the money by going. I've done fine with my English Lit degree - I graduated *** laude from a top-notch school and I've been consistently employed for almost 20 years, through all of the economic upheaval. I've built up enough creds in my industry that I will probably always be able to get by ok just by freelancing.
I was never going to do well in investment banking, engineering, medicine, etc. I'm pretty darn smart, but my brain doesn't work like that. So why force myself into a field that is always going to be a struggle and where I will never be successful? I worked hard through my entire academic career and got a degree from a respected institution. If I'd just blown off grade school, gone to whatever podunk school would take me after that and then done "meh" while I was there, I would not have the career success I've had.
I went into a field where I'm good at what I do. Supposing they could even get through the education part, would you really want to drive over a bridge designed by someone who barely understood the material they learned in college?
Liberal arts degrees are great for people who are passionate about their major and put a lot of work into it. You can slack off and still get the degree (sciences, not so much maybe), but your transcript will reflect that when you apply for jobs.
The one thing I disagree with many left-wing politicians about is their emphasis on college. I really think we should emphasize education overall, including vo-tech. I also think we need to be more rigorous about preparing students for college in terms of organizational and budgeting skills. We also, as a society, need to learn to respect experience as much as degrees. I know a lot of competent people who never got a degree but are great at their jobs - but they get passed over for less qualified people who happen to have a piece of paper. We've fetishized college to some degree as a society.
My brain doesn't work that way either, but I need to make money and good money and those are potentially the ways to do it. I kind of feel like that is what I did, I went to a crappy school, good high school grades, ok/average at best college and that was it. What is it that you do now?
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Originally Posted by senecaman
I see all the back and forth arguments ya'll are making and some of it holds water but this is not that complicated. I live in South Carolina and if you graduate with a BA from the U of South Carolina ,Clemson, Furman ,College of Charleston ect. and then take that degree and look for employment in the private sector in Greenville , Columbia or Charleston you can get a good job(this assumes you have done your part by having several internships over your college career).
Down here having a 4 year degree, any degree, still means something and the competition is not so fierce. That's not a knock against South Carolina ,that's just the lay of the land. Companies here are still relatively happy to take you with a 4 year degree and then mold you the way they want and they don't shudder if "GASP" you don't have an MBA! I think the percentage of people in South Carolina 25 and above with a 4 year degree is roughly 25 % but effectively it's lower than that because a large portion of that 25% are older Baby Boomers who have moved here the last 20 years and they are now retired or they are semi retired and are not in the workforce full time.
Companies here are happy to get and need younger employees with a decent 4 year education. Now I fully realize that if you have dreams of living in New York or LA the road ahead will be tougher and you're going to be facing a lot more competition but if you're willing to give South Carolina a shot(North Carolina as well) you can do well here (we have great beaches!) and our 3 major cities are getting more diverse all the time.
Maybe there is hope yet then. I have to admit, I am not in your state, but its nice that it is still that way and it seems like it worked out for you.
One of the things I really appreciated about my science degree is how much it has enriched by life.
I can travel throughout the world and look at a ecosystem and pretty much figure out what happened before and where that ecosystem will move in the future. The astronomy class gave me the night sky which makes me feel at home even 12 time zones away. Not to mention geology, etc. etc.
I can't imagine living without that science background. It must be like being blind. You miss so much and have to rely on other senses to fill in the void.
On "critical thinking" skills of liberal arts graduates. We have a little astronomy group in town composed mainly of professionals with science backgrounds.
There are a few liberal arts graduates. It is fun having them in the group. Their thinking is pretty original since it is totally unencumbered by science.
Thinking outside the box!! Actually, it is thinking without a box. But it is original.
This is entertaining at best. With a college education, one day, maybe you'll have a different outlook. A lot of people here have tried to teach you something that takes a college student years to learn. So I'm not even going to try. I think it would be best if you attended college to achieve this education and obtain a more accurate understanding of higher education.
So I guess my question is why do these people study these things if society has deemed them to be useless?
Because these people don't know any better. They pursue useless degrees because they are clueless. And some of them are in denial in spite of knowing the truth.
This is entertaining at best. With a college education, one day, maybe you'll have a different outlook. A lot of people here have tried to teach you something that takes a college student years to learn. So I'm not even going to try. I think it would be best if you attended college to achieve this education and obtain a more accurate understanding of higher education.
Best of luck.
And good luck in your endeavor to do something worthwhile with your life.
I had a liberal arts graduate that had the skill set for a job I was advertising. Somewhere along the line he took and learned some GIS skills and worked on a project that complemented the project I was going to undertake.
I worked for the Forest Service at that time and his degree was in Religious Studies. I spent more than a day working with personnel on how I could "legally" hire him. There was NO WAY I could do it. He did not qualify for any entry position that I had hiring authority. He did not have the minimum number of classes in the sciences.
I ended up hiring a Forestry student from University of Arizona. I had a choice of hundreds of position descriptions that she qualified for just by having a STEM degree. After a couple of years, I was really glad that I ended up with her as the position changed and so did the skill set requirements.
Granted the Federal government is more science oriented than most employers. But this shows the "box" that a liberal arts degree puts many of its graduates.
So, there is no box for STEM majors? You think that a STEM major qualifies for every entry-level job with the federal government? Every degree comes with limitations.
So, there is no box for STEM majors? You think that a STEM major qualifies for every entry-level job with the federal government? Every degree comes with limitations.
Not exactly. There are a lot of jobs that are skilled trades that require specific knowledge. Then there are jobs that just require a HS diploma/GED, though I guess a college degree meets that as well. Then many jobs in the contracting arena require some amount of business courses, though not a business degree specifically. And a whole lot of jobs where history/geography/or similar background is useful, as is a whole host of foreign languages. Lawyers, doctors, etc. Then there are the STEM jobs that have a positive education requirement, meaning you need the specific degree.
Not exactly. There are a lot of jobs that are skilled trades that require specific knowledge. Then there are jobs that just require a HS diploma/GED, though I guess a college degree meets that as well. Then many jobs in the contracting arena require some amount of business courses, though not a business degree specifically. And a whole lot of jobs where history/geography/or similar background is useful, as is a whole host of foreign languages. Lawyers, doctors, etc. Then there are the STEM jobs that have a positive education requirement, meaning you need the specific degree.
A biology degree will qualify you for jobs related to biology. A chemistry degree will qualify you for jobs related to chemistry. A mathematics degree will qualify you for jobs related to mathematics. There are some science jobs that will accept multiple types of science majors, but there are many that are also very specific. I've come across many jobs that specifically require a chemistry degree. A biology, physics, environmental science, or mathematics degree will not meet the education requirement. There is a reason why biology majors do not have the same types of job opportunities as physics and math majors. There is not a lot of overlap for the types of jobs they qualify for. Physics and mathematics majors are in more demand for high-paying jobs.
If you want to work as a licensed social worker, then you need a degree specifically in social work. A STEM degree is not going to cut it. If you want to work as a licensed psychologist, you need a doctorate in psychology. There is no other substitute (although, psychology is STEM). If you want to become a licensed counselor, you aren't going to do it with a degree in computer science. There are even archivist and historian positions that have a specific list of acceptable degrees. I've seen many communications-related jobs that specifically state that a degree in English, journalism, communications, or public relations is required. The U.S. Marshals Service requires a degree related to sociology, criminal justice, or law for the deputy position.
What I'm trying to get across to 509 is that there are jobs in every field, STEM and non-STEM, that require a specific degree. On the other hand, there is no degree that will qualify you for most jobs out there requiring a degree. Every major has a limit. However, the most flexible field I've come across, other than insurance and sales, is IT. Many people go into IT either without a degree or without a related degree. The IT field puts a lot of weight on certifications, experience, and proven skills. Many IT professionals are self-taught and have to continue to self-teach to learn new programming languages, technology, software, etc.
As far as federal government jobs that say, for example, must have a bachelor's degree in business administration or related field or a bachelor's degree in an unrelated field that includes 24 credit hours in business-related courses, these openings don't stipulate that the unrelated degree has to be STEM or anything else. I've also seen STEM jobs in the federal government that will accept 24 credit hours in a related field if your degree is unrelated. I've seen many lab jobs that only ask for two semesters of chemistry.
I demanded that all of my sons major in a liberal arts subject, as I did and my wife did.
Liberal arts degrees teach critical thinking and stress writing and communication. Most employers need these skills. A person who has studies Criminal Justice, or Medical Technology has not learned these sills.
A biology degree will qualify you for jobs related to biology. A chemistry degree will qualify you for jobs related to chemistry. A mathematics degree will qualify you for jobs related to mathematics. There are some science jobs that will accept multiple types of science majors, but there are many that are also very specific. ...
As far as federal government jobs that say, for example, must have a bachelor's degree in business administration or related field or a bachelor's degree in an unrelated field that includes 24 credit hours in business-related courses, these openings don't stipulate that the unrelated degree has to be STEM or anything else. I've also seen STEM jobs in the federal government that will accept 24 credit hours in a related field if your degree is unrelated. I've seen many lab jobs that only ask for two semesters of chemistry.
I believe I said that. One of the problems in the Federal Gov is how the degree is counted is often up to the specialist in HR. As is how the position is classified. I've gone around and around with HR often enough over the years and you wouldn't believe some of the completely incorrect reasoning many of them have about STEM jobs and STEM degrees.
For example, where I am, almost all the technical positions are classified in the same engineering series. But not all the jobs calls for engineers. Some need chemists, some physicists, some statisticians. Very different knowledge sets. Yet HR has convinced our non technical managers (more on them in a moment) that all STEM fields are pretty much interchangeable. You'll get 20 applicants and not one physicist among them. But plenty of folks who studied concrete, or HVAC, or electrical, or, well you get the picture. And some with no technical degree at all but convinced HR they had the background. Which means we get mechanical engineers hired for jobs that really require physics degrees.
Now back to the non technical managers. The Fed is one of the few places where those with no degree can get hired and promoted into senior level positions. Same with LA degrees. In fact the way the grade structure is set up and positions classified, it's easier to move to higher grades and management positions in these non technical fields that it is for a scientist or engineer. Which means we have a lot of unqualified people in senior positions making management decisions on subjects they do not understand.
There are a lot of positions that have a positive education requirement. Seems HR and management are not one of them.
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