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I decided to post this Thread up because of all the hits & views that I have gotten on both sides of the table within 24hrs plus I did not want to flood the other thread about moving AWAY from Colorado with responses towards my post…
If I offend anyone, I apologize, Im sorry, please forgive me, Yatta Yatta Yatta…I’m still moving there!
***Warning this is not a quick read***
Why do you want to leave?:
I am a Colorado Native and grew up in south eastern Weld county, and loved Colorado up until about 5 years ago. But with the growth the state as a whole has changed throughout the front range and the Grand Junction area.
Traffic has become a nightmare anywhere in or around Denver.
****Response**** By JCFLIGHTS
Traffic will always be a problem if a town has an explosion in growth and is not ready to handle the big changes that need to be made. Now this is not always a bad sign, with the increase in traffic you are looking at any of the following: Popularity of the local town, Job growth\opportunities, desired living location, etc.. there are many factors that go into why traffic is becoming so bad here is an example, I used to live in Miramar FL, this was a small town back in 2000-2001 houses were very affordable $180,000 fetched you a 4 bedroom 3 ½ bath with a nice yard big enough for a full size pool… Gated community and all.. …Well the Boom came…. Lots and LOTS of people from the north east… New York, jersey, Boston, etc moved down to FLORIDA… by mid 2005 my parents were able to sell the house for $525,000 all in less than 3 years of living there and they did not even do any upgrades to it… and Yes Traffic was a nightmare it was very bad but it drove the real estate prices through the roof….
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Politically I see the state headed for California type regulations based on raising taxes whenever possible and trying to control peoples everyday lives.
For example I quit smoking several years ago, however why should the government decide if someone can allow patrons to smoke in an establishment they own.
Denver has also placed a head tax on people who live in Denver or work in Denver just for the right to live or work there, while the amount is minimal it is the principal to me.
****Response**** By JCFLIGHTS
I am not sure about the state headed for California type regulations only locals would be better suited to answer that or anyone that has lived in both states really! I take it you have? The smoking thing does not bother me too much.. If your not a smoker it does not bother you, if you are a smoker it does because now you have to go outside to smoke.. this is how it is in Illinois State wide not just county. As far as taxes and Denver placing them on you well the way I see it is, someone’s got to flip the bill for all those beautiful parks and paved roads and bike paths you have accessible to you… FYI here in ILLIONIS I am paying $3.39 a gallon for regular while your enjoying $2.71 a gallon at Western Convenience located at Shields and Davidson.. That’s .60cents difference…. Not sure what it cost you to fill up, but imagine having to pay .60 cents extra for every Gallon you just pumped.. Welcome to Illinois… The average person here fills up at least once a week so lets say that you have a Nissan Maxima that holds 15 gallons of fuel.. You fill her up in Illinois…15 Gallons for $3.39 a gallon = $50.85… Now you do the same in Fort Collins at $2.71 = $40.65 …. That’s a $10.20 difference..
$10.20 a week savings
$40.80 a month = Free tank of gas a month difference with .15cents left over, enough money for a lollypop.
Extra $10.20 assuming that you fill up at least 1extra time other than the normal 1 a week. this would be more of a weekend getaway tank fillup....lets say you do this once a month.....= $122.40 annually
$612.00 a year ----------- This is what .60cents difference adds up annually….
So my question is Just how much is this Denver Tax thing???
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Water is another reason, the state of Colorado is losing much of it's job diversity, yet due to the water problems many farmers are losing their crops which is still a major product of this state.
****Response**** By JCFLIGHTS
The water thing in Colorado is a touchy subject I don’t know what to say about that. I don’t live there and don’t fully get it but I have done my fair share of staying up late at night researching the internet and trying to educate myself as to why the West is running out of water… Like I said its all about money… if you have deep pockets you can do anything, the state can fix this if they wanted to. Look at the Alaska Pipeline, this is a major U.S. oil pipeline connecting oil fields in northern Alaska to a sea port where the oil can be shipped to the Lower 48 states for refining. I guess the water does not bring in as much $$$ as oil does? Face it you will never run out of water over there… we are in the 21st century… this is not the Pike's Peak Gold Rush 1858 to 1861… we are a modern day civilization with the advances in technology that can forecast how many drops there are left until your west runs out of water…I am sure that there are very bright people working for the state that have already solved this problem, but that’s not the solution to the problem the solution is funding and government.
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Which bring me to another thing, the sprawl is out of control and has been for years, while people need a place to live the cities should have done much better in planning for the growth, including figuring out the water situation, and avoiding the subdivisions placed in between fields in the middle of nowhere.
The economy is losing manufacturing jobs, tech Jobs, and several other industries worse then other areas due to the taxes, regulations, and employee's cost of living that they face here as compared to states like Texas and Wyoming or internationally. I know of 4 companies that moved to Cheyenne in the last three years, all of which employ over a hundred employees each. I also know of two plants in the Fort Collins area that is sending people back and forth to China while they train their replacements there.
****Response**** By JCFLIGHTS
Yes I agree the population boom is out of control but that’s everywhere… Look at las Vegas they are having the biggest migration of out of state people coming into Nevada more than any state in the U.S… This is according to forbes.com.
As far as companies outsourcing that’s always going to happen.. I live in Chicago which is the 3rd biggest city in the U.S and outsourcing is the way to go for most employers. Unfortunately this is the fate we all face at one point or another; you just need to be ready for the change. Again its 2008 most companies nowadays don’t care if you been there 15 -30 years they want you out of there, its modern day office politics which did not exist 15-30 years ago…This is not to say that you cannot find a suitable employer and stay with them for x amount of years, all im saying is that you have to be marketable and profitable for the company so that they can keep you around for that long.
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Job growth seems to be in the hard labor or upper income job descriptions with little in between. Which puts a guy with a two year degree in a tough spot to find a job, and furthering my education is next too impossible with the current cost of living and working a job where it is possible to actually complete a degree.
Recently in the newspaper in the Fort Collins paper stated that there are currently over 50,000 people registered with the Larimer County workforce center as actively looking for a new job (whether currently employed or unemployed was not state), the problem is that the workforce center finds approximately 300 new jobs come available per month with the average wage around $8.75 an hour.
I have a friend who works for a car dealer in the Greeley area, recently they placed a one day add for salespeople and had over 700 applicants for a commission only job selling cars, with some applicants from as far away as Denver just needing a job.
Several friends of mine who have masters degrees, and or some that have experience in their fields have been forced to take lower paying jobs while working 60-80 hours a week due to not being able to find employment, and this is for work ranging from Psychology, to scientific research, all the way down to manufacturing and technology.
****Response**** By JCFLIGHTS
I agree with that first line 100% see Colorado is a very educated state you folks have a high number of college attendees, more than most states. With that said it’s as if most people in between are fighting for the same jobs which in turn causes the over saturation of the job market. This is exactly what happened to me in Florida back in 2003 when I was applying to become a police officer… I would show up to the open house and there would be about 200 applicants on that particular day for only 4 openings total. Miami Florida is sharing this same fate and I have been there and totally understand what that is like. Overall this is what over saturation does to the job market.. You just need to make sure that you are marketable… As far as 50,000 people being registered with the Larimer County workforce I don’t blame the employers for low balling because #1 there is an over saturation, if you are a business owner or an employer you are going to go with who can do it for less.
You stated that you have friends with master’s degrees with experience who are having difficulty with the job market… I did my homework on this…
There are many I.T jobs out in the Denver area to be had not just downtown but all around… it all depends on your skills and what you can do.
If you are a R.N you basically can pick where you want to work in the state of Colorado not just there but anywhere….
Sales jobs are just that sales you don’t make the quota well then you are no longer considered an asset..
Secretary, paralegal, data entry, general labor, driver, handyman, etc are just that jobs and with the market the way it is, everyone is fighting for these jobs…
I am in I.T and I am what you call a Systems Administrator… if I were to move to Colorado tomorrow I could find a job before my flight landed with all the contracting companies there are in the Denver\surrounding areas… the trick with I.T is you need to be marketable, its not what degree you have but what you know and have done… I have developed thick skin for the job market ever since I got into I.T because it changes so rapidly… you can be making $60,000 a year today but 2 years later your job is being taught in high school and you need to now develop new skills in order to stay competitive within the game. Lets just assume that your friend has a masters degree in psychology and is applying for a job out of his field.. yes he may get the job but he will be 1, over qualified 2,employer may see him\her as a risk and potential job hopper 3, masters degree and cannot find a good job.. there has to be something wrong with that…. Is your friend just looking in 1 area? To me it sounds like your friend is very well disciplined in the field of study but may not be when it comes to looking outside of his hometown for a job….
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Anything else you want to tell us that we don’t know?
Overall I was one of the biggest supporters of people moving here up until a few years ago, the problem is that the job markets have not grown to support the growth. I moved from the Brighton region to Fort Collins due to a great job I was offered, but when I got here a couple of months later the company decided to close their office in northern Colorado due to the overall economy. I had a chance to transfer out to California but I do not see a better lifestyle there with the cost of living and other problems in the area. I have spent 18 months looking for jobs anywhere from Denver to Cheyenne with the best offers I usually get in the neighborhood of $10-11 an hour, or a decent monthly salary, but doing sales over the road and covering the costs out of my own pocket, which usually leaves a much lower net.
People say to have a good job before you come here, and I would say you better do more than that and make sure you are marketable. Close to 40% of the people who live in the front range have bachelors degrees at minimum, many with connections to the area, and most with experience so make sure you have plenty of reasons that a company will hire you.
****Response**** By JCFLIGHTS
I agree with you 100% the market is in bad shape and if the current projected growth continues the same things will get worst out west. It won’t be the West is running out of water…. The signs will read “The West Is Running Out Of Jobs” there is really nothing neither me nor you can do to stop the growth of the state.
You say that close to 40% of the people who live in the front range have a bachelors degree at minimum? I have checked that out and its pretty damm close because when you have that many people with the same skills things can get competitive. One last thing I like to say is that have you ever thought about maybey changing fields? Sounds like you have a lot of history in Colorado and I bet you have been working all that time so im sure that your experience is well worth more than $10-$11 an hr…Have you ever thought about taking one of those lower paying jobs just for the interim so you can make ends meet and have more time to go back to school and finish up on a degree or pursue a certification? Good luck to you all I know that most people who make the move plan for the job thing in advance… Its just like any other state you don’t know the local mindset so you are a little scared but in the end you will fit right in. Do your time in the job market in Colorado within a few months to years you will have networked enough to find your way to a better paying job…
Sincerely,
JCFLIGHTS
Last edited by JCFLIGHTS; 01-07-2008 at 03:47 PM..
Livecontent,
You posted a comment back a while ago about how were always trying to get to where we want to be but not focusing on what is the NOW... can you re-send that quote to me please...
JCFLIGHTS says that he is not familiar with the water situation in the West, but goes on to say that technology or money will fix it. Well, as one who has been around the block on few times on Colorado and western water issues, I believe that view is a fool's paradise. Nature only dumps so much moisture on the West--sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less, but there is only so much. In most of the country west of the 100th Meridian (go dig out an atlas and find it on the map) until you get to the central and northern Pacific Coast and Cascades, the amount of moisture that evaporates exceeds what falls as precipitation--what water people call a "water deficit." Everything that resourceful humans have done in this part of the country to have enough water to live has been to dam, divert, and store water from the few areas that are NOT water deficit (like the high mountains) and get that water to where it is used. That, and "mine" ancient underground water that can't be replaced.
OK, so we'll just do more of those things, just bigger, people like JCFLIGHTS say. The problem is that all of the cheap, easy projects have been built, all of the short water diversions made, all of the easy lands to de-water have been de-watered. Everything that happens hence is going to be much more expensive and--more importantly--is a "Rob Peter to pay Paul" proposition: Dry up agriculture for urban areas, dam up what few free-flowing streams are left, drain what undisturbed wetlands are left, deplete ground water resources even faster. Well, we'll just pump it uphill from the Midwest or someplace. Get a clue--most farmers can barely afford the energy to pump water up 400 feet, who the hell is going to pay to pump it up 3 or 4 thousand feet over hundreds of miles? There aren't enough wind farms, solar panels, coal-fired power plants, corncobs, or switchgrass to fuel that kind of enterprise in the whole country.
People who continue to say that "growth is inevitable, get over it," are damning this region to the destruction of everything that makes its quality of life desirable to the people who live here and to the very people who constantly post on this board saying they WANT to live here. What does it take to get people to connect those two dots? We can not continue to do what we are doing now and have any result other than the environmental, social, and--eventually--economic destruction of this region and its way of life. As someone else posted on this forum, the people who can't see that just don't want to see it.
Last edited by jazzlover; 01-07-2008 at 04:23 PM..
Jazzlover,
I agree with you on the water issue, I did not know about the water deficit… That Is new to me. Thank you for that because now I understand and see your point. BUT a big but yes I still have my questions….
1: Colorado is experiencing a boom in population; new homes are being built from the ground up…. Most of this land is being purchased from Farmers correct? That’s what there doing here in ILLINOIS… welcome to the 21st century this is what I call modern day corporations coming into your hometown in the form of builders, developers, etc …. We are commercializing the West.. In a few years you will drive down roads where there were empty fields and you could have seen as far as the eye can see, Now there full of Townhomes, homes, communites, shopping centers, etc… See the state knows the water issue is there, I am sure that there are boards of directors whose sole responsibilities are to manage this kind of disaster… yet new homes are being built, communities are being developed overnight, and people are flocking by the masses… The West will NEVER run out of water… just the same way that cars are imported to the united states, fuel, food, cloths, etc… the water will become or evolve into commercialization and will come in from somewhere else. As far as the farmers go they will be forced to sell, the cost of maintaining will over pass the rewards. Colorado will become a modern day California… overcrowded, homes everywhere, over saturation, traffic nightmare, etc… this is the birth of a modern day city… You should enjoy this because you are witnessing modern day migration. Let’s face it if the Water issue posed a real threat to the city and financial impact! They would have resolved it by now. In the end the one that will suffer will be the modern day farmer but he too will say screw it I’m selling…
Regards,
JCFLIGHTS
Last edited by JCFLIGHTS; 01-07-2008 at 05:11 PM..
Livecontent,
You posted a comment back a while ago about how were always trying to get to where we want to be but not focusing on what is the NOW... can you re-send that quote to me please...
I have tried to review my past posts--which are many. I have not found any reference to what you want but I got tired of reading what I wrote. It appears I have A BIG MOUTH.
So I should not want to be considered a sage because then I would have to listen to my own advice.
My point about my previous post on this thread is that we cannot run away from ourselves and many problems which we ascribe to the others or the place, is really the problems we are having with ourselves.
Many times we do not recognize it because we need repeated errors to see a pattern---then we are older; our choices are less and there is less time to fix ourselves. Regrets set in; we get depressed about the past which we cannot change.
So what I do; I put these memories some place that I can find them, and because of my age and my health problem, I forget where I put them, and then I cannot remember these memories, because I cannot find them.
Then I have no regrets of past mistakes because the memories are gone and I Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 01-07-2008 at 05:57 PM..
I will respond much in the same way you did. AS for whether or not you move here that is up to you, as I am on here doing research on some of th places that I am considering and would like the honest truth from people on those boards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
I decided to post this Thread up because of all the hits & views that I have gotten on both sides of the table within 24hrs plus I did not want to flood the other thread about moving AWAY from Colorado with responses towards my post…
If I offend anyone, I apologize, Im sorry, please forgive me, Yatta Yatta Yatta…I’m still moving there!
***Warning this is not a quick read***
****Response****
Traffic will always be a problem if a town has an explosion in growth and is not ready to handle the big changes that need to be made. Now this is not always a bad sign, with the increase in traffic you are looking at any of the following: Popularity of the local town, Job growth\opportunities, desired living location, etc.. there are many factors that go into why traffic is becoming so bad here is an example, I used to live in Miramar FL, this was a small town back in 2000-2001 houses were very affordable $180,000 fetched you a 4 bedroom 3 ½ bath with a nice yard big enough for a full size pool… Gated community and all.. …Well the Boom came…. Lots and LOTS of people from the north east… New York, jersey, Boston, etc moved down to FLORIDA… by mid 2005 my parents were able to sell the house for $525,000 all in less than 3 years of living there and they did not even do any upgrades to it… and Yes Traffic was a nightmare it was very bad but it drove the real estate prices through the roof….
While that is nice that your parents got out in 2005, have you checked what is going on in Florida now? It is not pretty according to many I know still living around Florida, houses are on the market everywhere with prices dropping to the floor, and I am sure that is sort of what Colorado is heading for. Down there they had plenty of jobs making less then $30k a year, and plenty making $100 a year with very little in between, with the market being driven by people from outside the area spending money there.
As a former mortgage broker I can tell you the number one reason why Colorado has lead the nation on foreclosures the last few years, and regardless of what the news media and politicians like to say it had very little to do with mortgage fruad and everything to do with people not being able to afford the home prices. People had to have the best house they could get, and often it was more then they could afford, that is why there are all the interest only and adjustable rate loans going bad now. There is a simple formula of taking your yearly household income and multiplying it by three, and that is how much house you really can afford, about half of the loans I saw get done had people paying close to 50% of their income just for the house. I see on this site and others where people talk about a house only being $350,000, and while for someone from California that sounds good, you take a look at the wages and figure out that to truly afford that a family has to have $120,000 a year income. Denver three years ago had seen homes go up in value over 10% a year for 6 years, since that time many neighborhoods have actually lost value, because there are not the jobs to support the value they have attained. It makes you wonder how the average person in a state where the average median family income is at $45,000 can afford to even think about buying a decent house in a below average neighborhood, which goes for $180,000+ in the Denver metro area.
So I guess what I am saying in a log winded around about way, is that the market will not truly adjust until people realize that the lower wages they are getting with the lower house prices end up equaling out, and from what a few friends of mine (that have been involved in real estate throughout the country) have told me that takes about 4-5 years to happen and then you have a horrible drop, and recession in the area, which means it is going to get worse before it gets better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
****Response****
I am not sure about the state headed for California type regulations only locals would be better suited to answer that or anyone that has lived in both states really! I take it you have? The smoking thing does not bother me too much.. If your not a smoker it does not bother you, if you are a smoker it does because now you have to go outside to smoke.. this is how it is in Illinois State wide not just county. As far as taxes and Denver placing them on you well the way I see it is, someone’s got to flip the bill for all those beautiful parks and paved roads and bike paths you have accessible to you…
When you take a look at the last elections in Colorado you will find that many of the issues put on the ballot originated with California organizations and people behind them (and no I am not talking the transplants, most were based in California). They have started to try to get the same things they have gotten passed in California, and have now even started to try out new ideas here, so they can measure the reaction when they try in California.
The problem I have with the smoking laws is I am pro small business several friends of mine who own or work in bars and nightclubs have stated that they have had a 50-70% drop off in business since the new laws went into effect. A guy I know real well went from over a $120,000 yearly income, down to struggling to survive in the matter of one month. While some of the money is going elsewhere, it usually is ending up in the large corporate guys hands.
While it is true that someone has to pay for all the great things there are in Colorado, they have to have the jobs and income to do it. Colorado is eroding away at their tax bases, they keep following the California ideas and it will get worse, as Colorado is not the huge market and economy that California is, so they cannot get away with raising taxes, and making things harder on businesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
Denver three years ago had seen homes go up in value over 10% a year for 6 years, since that time many neighborhoods have actually lost value, because there are not the jobs to support the value they have attained.
Do you know the law of 72? It is basically the fact that anything with a 10% growth rate will more then double in value within 6 years, while houses doubled in value they have yet to lose more then 5% in most neighborhoods. That means that they are still double what they once where, while the median household income in the state has went up less then 33% or from just over $36K a year to $45k. So we are looking at a Florida situation and for a man with young kids and a long future ahead of me, I see no reason to be caught in the mess for the next 5+ years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
FYI here in ILLIONIS I am paying $3.39 a gallon for regular while your enjoying $2.71 a gallon at Western Convenience located at Shields and Davidson.. That’s .60cents difference…. Not sure what it cost you to fill up, but imagine having to pay .60 cents extra for every Gallon you just pumped.. Welcome to Illinois… The average person here fills up at least once a week so lets say that you have a Nissan Maxima that holds 15 gallons of fuel.. You fill her up in Illinois…15 Gallons for $3.39 a gallon = $50.85… Now you do the same in Fort Collins at $2.71 = $40.65 …. That’s a $10.20 difference..
$10.20 a week savings
$40.80 a month = Free tank of gas a month difference with .15cents left over, enough money for a lollypop.
$489.60 a year ----------- This is what .60cents difference adds up annually….
So my question is Just how much is this Denver Tax thing???
I will be the first to admit that due to the tabor amendment Colorado's taxes are the lowest in the nation, however that is changing now as some new laws have been passed with built in increases that will increase the tax burden immensely within the next 10 years. Add to that the government has figured out that they can charge surcharges and other fees, to increase revenue and the tax rate does not come close to telling the whole story.
As for the Denver head tax from what I was told today it is not actually a tax, just a surcharge of $15 per employee regardless of their job description, hours worked, or income.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
****Response****
The water thing in Colorado is a touchy subject I don’t know what to say about that. I don’t live there and don’t fully get it but I have done my fair share of staying up late at night researching the internet and trying to educate myself as to why the West is running out of water… Like I said its all about money… if you have deep pockets you can do anything, the state can fix this if they wanted to. Look at the Alaska Pipeline, this is a major U.S. oil pipeline connecting oil fields in northern Alaska to a sea port where the oil can be shipped to the Lower 48 states for refining. I guess the water does not bring in as much $$$ as oil does? Face it you will never run out of water over there… we are in the 21st century… this is not the Pike's Peak Gold Rush 1858 to 1861… we are a modern day civilization with the advances in technology that can forecast how many drops there are left until your west runs out of water…I am sure that there are very bright people working for the state that have already solved this problem, but that’s not the solution to the problem the solution is funding and government.
The water problem is solvable and it does not take a pipeline from canada to solve it, every year the state of Colorado loses over 20% of their water due to not have storage capabilities. they can easily build a dam but due to the politics involved they cannot get a dam approved and so therefor they say we have a drought every year (which let me be the first to tell people we have not been in a drought, although mosture has been down slightly from averages, it is well within expected ranges when looking at the law of averages). While it allows the cities to raise more money, it hurts the state's long term economy and financial health.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
****Response****
Yes I agree the population boom is out of control but that’s everywhere… Look at las Vegas they are having the biggest migration of out of state people coming into Nevada more than any state in the U.S… This is according to forbes.com.
And yet real estate is having trouble in vegas, with many investors losing considerable money. It is a fact that their real estate market has lost well over 10% of it's value in the last year alone. Why? The same reason Colorado is heading for trouble, area income cannot support the values.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
As far as companies outsourcing that’s always going to happen.. I live in Chicago which is the 3rd biggest city in the U.S and outsourcing is the way to go for most employers. Unfortunately this is the fate we all face at one point or another; you just need to be ready for the change. Again its 2008 most companies nowadays don’t care if you been there 15 -30 years they want you out of there, its modern day office politics which did not exist 15-30 years ago…This is not to say that you cannot find a suitable employer and stay with them for x amount of years, all im saying is that you have to be marketable and profitable for the company so that they can keep you around for that long.
I understand that outsourcing is going on everywhere, however, whether people believe it or not, many of the outsourced jobs are not leaving the United States, they are going instead to many areas of the mid-west, rocky mountain states around Colorado, and the south, where they can still afford to hire employees at wages that many of them can afford to live on, and the states are pro-business with an eye towards controlled growth and quality companies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
****Response****
I agree with that first line 100% see Colorado is a very educated state you folks have a high number of college attendees, more than most states. With that said it’s as if most people in between are fighting for the same jobs which in turn causes the over saturation of the job market. This is exactly what happened to me in Florida back in 2003 when I was applying to become a police officer… I would show up to the open house and there would be about 200 applicants on that particular day for only 4 openings total. Miami Florida is sharing this same fate and I have been there and totally understand what that is like. Overall this is what over saturation does to the job market.. You just need to make sure that you are marketable… As far as 50,000 people being registered with the Larimer County workforce I don’t blame the employers for low balling because #1 there is an over saturation, if you are a business owner or an employer you are going to go with who can do it for less.
This is something we both agree on, I am in no way blaming the business owner, or anybody who chooses to come here, I am instead blaming the conditions that have lead to this, and choosing to leave the area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
You stated that you have friends with master’s degrees with experience who are having difficulty with the job market… I did my homework on this…
There are many I.T jobs out in the Denver area to be had not just downtown but all around… it all depends on your skills and what you can do.
You are right, there are It jobs available, some of which pay decent money, however most of the ones that pay a good wage require a degree/ advanced degree with years of experience in the field.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
If you are a R.N you basically can pick where you want to work in the state of Colorado not just there but anywhere….
Another fact, if you can handle tht type of work, they pay well here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
Sales jobs are just that sales you don’t make the quota well then you are no longer considered an asset..
While true, when you have 1000s of applicants for a job selling something the companies can ensure that they pay a minimum commission, and set unrealistic goals as you are easily replaceable. I used to have a friend who sold copiers, he made well over $100K in 2003, every year since that he has taken a cut in his commission and benefits, while his quotas are 50% higher then they once were. Other friends of mine have sold cars for the last 20+ years, they now have to sell twice as many to make the same amount of money they did just 5 years ago (and that is not adding in inflation), another guy I know makes less now then he did in the 70s with no adjustment for inflation, and yet another friend of mine walked into his job just last week where he has worked 10 years for a large corporate company that had just replaced his coworker, they found out they could bring in new people for a base of $24,000 a year and a 50% lower commission and cut his salary to that from the $72,000 he had worked his way up to and lowered his commission. The problem is that none of these guys have the option to go anywhere else and stay in the area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
Secretary, paralegal, data entry, general labor, driver, handyman, etc are just that jobs and with the market the way it is, everyone is fighting for these jobs…
Agreed, however these are the entry level jobs that many use to get into a career field, and when they refuse to pay a living wage, then that hurts the long term prospects of the area, as well as the economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
I am in I.T and I am what you call a Systems Administrator… if I were to move to Colorado tomorrow I could find a job before my flight landed with all the contracting companies there are in the Denver\surrounding areas… the trick with I.T is you need to be marketable, its not what degree you have but what you know and have done… I have developed thick skin for the job market ever since I got into I.T because it changes so rapidly… you can be making $60,000 a year today but 2 years later your job is being taught in high school and you need to now develop new skills in order to stay competitive within the game.
I have friends and family in the IT field, so I understand more about it than some, however it is something that I myself cannot force myself to enjoy, and that many others I know do not want to do, or are scared off after the It field collapsed in Colorado a few years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
Lets just assume that your friend has a masters degree in psychology and is applying for a job out of his field.. yes he may get the job but he will be 1, over qualified 2,employer may see him\her as a risk and potential job hopper 3, masters degree and cannot find a good job.. there has to be something wrong with that…. Is your friend just looking in 1 area? To me it sounds like your friend is very well disciplined in the field of study but may not be when it comes to looking outside of his hometown for a job….
Of course she is overqualified for many of the jobs she is interviewing for, but then she refuses to leave the Northern Colorado market now that she is here. Her boyfriend recently talked her into putting in resumes for a few openings in Dallas just before they went down there for Christmas, and she just announced last night she was taking one of four offers, so once again that screams the region, and not really the person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFLIGHTS
****Response****
I agree with you 100% the market is in bad shape and if the current projected growth continues the same things will get worst out west. It won’t be the West is running out of water…. The signs will read “The West Is Running Out Of Jobs” there is really nothing neither me nor you can do to stop the growth of the state.
You say that close to 40% of the people who live in the front range have a bachelors degree at minimum? I have checked that out and its pretty damm close because when you have that many people with the same skills things can get competitive. One last thing I like to say is that have you ever thought about maybey changing fields? Sounds like you have a lot of history in Colorado and I bet you have been working all that time so im sure that your experience is well worth more than $10-$11 an hr…Have you ever thought about taking one of those lower paying jobs just for the interim so you can make ends meet and have more time to go back to school and finish up on a degree or pursue a certification? Good luck to you all I know that most people who make the move plan for the job thing in advance… Its just like any other state you don’t know the local mindset so you are a little scared but in the end you will fit right in. Do your time in the job market in Colorado within a few months to years you will have networked enough to find your way to a better paying job…
Sincerely,
JCFLIGHTS
Right now I am working two of the $11 an hour jobs. Until I find the jobs I want, that will pay me the money that I am qualified for, that is the best option I have. To give a very brief background on myself so that you may understand where I am coming from, I began selling cars at the age of 18, and was a top salesman within 3 months, I was a finance manager by the age of 21, I went from there to selling mortgages, within 1 year I was a sales manager and within 2 more years I owned the place. Unfortunately with the real estate crash, and family medical problems I was forced to sale out and since that time have had nothing but problems. I earned my AA degree in accounting when I first started in mortgages, and went back to school a few months ago to complete my bachelors degree in accounting.
My big problems are that for the companies that most would want to work for and that pay decent commissions and such, will not hire me, usually due to being overqualified (I am tired of people telling me that I am qualified enough to be their boss), the idea that Real Estate and Mortgages pay better then most companies are willing to pay now and so I may be looking for something to make a living until the market turns (and the harder I try to convince them otherwise the worse it sounds as they know I can sell), or corporate requires a bachelor's degree. The ones that will hire me, are looking for guys who are willing to put in 70 hours a week and make $36,000 a year with commission only pay and horrible treatment (which is more hours and slightly less money then I am making now with two $11 an hour jobs). However due to my focus in Sales and success in sales for so long, many companies want very little to do with me for any other type of work, as they view good salespeople as nothing more than lazy but good con-men unwilling to do the work they need, hence the degree. To me the low pay and long hours are no longer worth it, and in other areas I have found companies that would love to have a guy like me and will give me the money to work the hours that the job needs, allow me to finish my degree at off times, and be happy paying me the money for what I do.
Jazzlover,
I agree with you on the water issue, I did not know about the water deficit… That Is new to me. Thank you for that because now I understand and see your point. BUT a big but yes I still have my questions….
1: Colorado is experiencing a boom in population; new homes are being built from the ground up…. Most of this land is being purchased from Farmers correct? That’s what there doing here in ILLINOIS… welcome to the 21st century this is what I call modern day corporations coming into your hometown in the form of builders, developers, etc …. We are commercializing the West.. In a few years you will drive down roads where there were empty fields and you could have seen as far as the eye can see, Now there full of Townhomes, homes, communites, shopping centers, etc… See the state knows the water issue is there, I am sure that there are boards of directors whose sole responsibilities are to manage this kind of disaster… yet new homes are being built, communities are being developed overnight, and people are flocking by the masses… The West will NEVER run out of water… just the same way that cars are imported to the united states, fuel, food, cloths, etc… the water will become or evolve into commercialization and will come in from somewhere else. As far as the farmers go they will be forced to sell, the cost of maintaining will over pass the rewards. Colorado will become a modern day California… overcrowded, homes everywhere, over saturation, traffic nightmare, etc… this is the birth of a modern day city… You should enjoy this because you are witnessing modern day migration. Let’s face it if the Water issue posed a real threat to the city and financial impact! They would have resolved it by now. In the end the one that will suffer will be the modern day farmer but he too will say screw it I’m selling…
Regards,
JCFLIGHTS
You are wrong. Period. The West will reach the end of its available water resources. It may grow more first, and it may wreck a whole lot of precious things in the meantime, but it will reach the limits--and probably sooner than anyone thinks. As far as water coming "from somewhere else," there is going to be no "somewhere else." Availability of water is becoming a national issue, too. And your statement that Colorado will become a "modern day California"--what possibly could be desirable about that? All you can hear on these forums are the legions of people screaming to get out of the hellhole that is modern California. That is the LAST thing Colorado should try to emulate--in fact, it is the very thing it should try to avoid. In Colorado, and all across this country, we are killing the goose that has laid the golden eggs. We are squandering our future and we should be ashamed.
The water thing in Colorado is a touchy subject I don’t know what to say about that. I don’t live there and don’t fully get it but I have done my fair share of staying up late at night researching the internet and trying to educate myself as to why the West is running out of water… Like I said its all about money… if you have deep pockets you can do anything, the state can fix this if they wanted to. Look at the Alaska Pipeline, this is a major U.S. oil pipeline connecting oil fields in northern Alaska to a sea port where the oil can be shipped to the Lower 48 states for refining. I guess the water does not bring in as much $$$ as oil does? Face it you will never run out of water over there… we are in the 21st century… this is not the Pike's Peak Gold Rush 1858 to 1861… we are a modern day civilization with the advances in technology that can forecast how many drops there are left until your west runs out of water…I am sure that there are very bright people working for the state that have already solved this problem, but that’s not the solution to the problem the solution is funding and government.
The idea of a "water pipeline" sounds intriguing-- it might very well be science fiction, but it sounds like an intriguing idea! Does anybody here know how oil pipelines work? Would it be possible, even theoretically, to have a "water pipeline" from the Mississippi/Missouri River to the dry western states? Also, desalinization-- Denver's too far from the ocean for that to make sense, but for the desert southwest cities, couldn't there be desalinization plants by the Gulf of California in Mexico, pumping water up to Phoenix, powered by solar panels? How high would the price of water have to be to justify the cost? or is this all science fiction? Keep in mind, there already are canals that pump water hundreds of miles upstream-- such as the Central Arizona Project canal that pumps water from Lake Havasu (several hundred feet above sea level) to Phoenix (1000 ft above sea level) and Tucson (2000 feet above sea level). LA has a canal diverting water hundreds of miles from the Owen (sp?) Valley. And then there's the All-American-Canal, watering the Imperial Valley. There's a water tunnel that diverts water from the west slope to the east slope, going to Denver, right?
You are wrong. Period. The West will reach the end of its available water resources. It may grow more first, and it may wreck a whole lot of precious things in the meantime, but it will reach the limits--and probably sooner than anyone thinks. As far as water coming "from somewhere else," there is going to be no "somewhere else." Availability of water is becoming a national issue, too. And your statement that Colorado will become a "modern day California"--what possibly could be desirable about that? All you can hear on these forums are the legions of people screaming to get out of the hellhole that is modern California. That is the LAST thing Colorado should try to emulate--in fact, it is the very thing it should try to avoid. In Colorado, and all across this country, we are killing the goose that has laid the golden eggs. We are squandering our future and we should be ashamed.
You are wrong. Period. The West has not and will not reach the end of its available resources. It will not reach the limits. There will be somewhere else that water will comes from. Availability of water is not becoming a national issue. There is nothing wrong with being the modern day California; it is very desirable. You do not hear legions of people screaming to get out of California. California is the first thing that that Colorado should emulate. It is nothing to avoid. We are not killing the goose who laid the golden egg. We are not squandering our future and we should not be ashamed.
See, I can say opposite of all you are saying and I have as much credence as you.
You should be thankful and cheerful that you are so fortunate that you have a job that is so easy or boring, that you can spend your days on your long posts here and who knows where else on the World Wide Web of Wasted Time. That is not my concern or business but I can certainly make an observation. Your posts are interesting and you are obviously educated because you write well. I have learned from your posts but they do get me to wonder what you really pretend to do for a living because you obviously have some need, some want and some talent to do something more meaningful.
Are you the only expert and arbiter of right and wrong. You live all over Colorado and are a "native", You know all theses people, here and there, and you been a part of all these meetings. Some of us have just as much education or more. Some of us have just as much experience or more. Some of us know just as many people or more. Some of us have been to just as many meetings or more. Some of us have been all over the state and can assess situation and trends, just as well or more. Some of us have experience in many diverse areas, just as good or more. So all of use have opinions, forecasts and expertise that are just as good or more.
Maybe if you can use all your talents then all of us will benefit and you can
livecontent
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