Colorado and the West is running out of water . . . (Denver: apartment, cost of)

[SheridanL]

Idunn,....."a cow about this!" Very funny!!!!hahahaha!
Classic!

[Najran]

Originally Posted by DOUBLE H

I'm 99% sure the restaurant Mike is talking about is The Big Texan, which is just outside Amarillo. The deal with that place is if you eat that 84 oz. steak right there on the spot, they give you another one. That place has been in Amarillo for a long time and also has motel rooms and a gift shop. I've actually eaten at that place a few times (not steak, though) and the food actually is pretty good. I have friends who live in Tucumcari, N.M., about an hour and a half drive west of there.

Amarillo doesn't have a lot going for them tourist wise, so places like that get promoted for what its worth. Anyone reading here who has gone through Amarillo would likely attest to that!

Go HERE:Big Texan: Home of the FREE 72 oz. Steak
and you can watch and see if someone is woofing one down.Link is right on the page.

[CosmicWizard]

Idunn wrote:

The 'Beef Council' (if there is one) is going to have a cow about this.

Nah, they'll slough it off as another liberal lie, and tell their disciples that numbers like that is propaganda to scare people into eating more vegetables. Where's the beef?

[GregW]

I just read most of this thread. One of the things not mentioned is the Oguilla Aquifer that recharges in Colorado and has supplied most of the irrigation water to the mid west. AFIK this aquifer is being drained to provide for cattle feed and corn alcohol. If you think Colorado is having problems wait until the Great Plains farmers run out of well water and have to go back to dry land farming.

Has anyone in this thread brought out the old North American Water and Power Alliance? NAWAPA was a grandiose scheme to divert water from the McKenzie River in northern Canada through a series of drowned valleys and huge canals to provide water for the west. Fascinating proposal but never built. Yet. Look it up. It is a great laugh.

I intend to become part of the problem when we move to New Mexico. I expect to minimize water use as much as possible. I learned to conserve water in the Navy so I won't have too much trouble. My wife may have to learn new habits.

[jazzlover]

People love to slam beef as being an environmental nightmare. The problem is not with cattle themselves, but how Americans insist that their beef be raised--fed out on grain in a feed lot. That IS very wasteful, but it gives that nice marbled, fatty beef that we like to eat. Compared to most other livestock--pigs, chickens, etc., cattle have pretty inefficient feed conversion, about 8 lbs. of feed to make 1 lb. of beef. BUT, here's the big difference: Unlike chickens and hogs, cattle (as well as sheep) have ruminant stomachs. They can digest cellulose--meaning grass. Hogs and chickens can't. Humans can't. So, cattle can perform the very important function of turning something we humans can not digest--grass--into something we can--dairy products and beef. Those critters just need to be eating grass instead of sitting in feedlots eating grain. What this region does have is fairly extensive rangelands that, properly managed, can graze a fair number of cattle. It also has a lot of farm land that arguably is marginal for farming purposes, but would make good cattle graze if allowed to revert to that. If we are going to have enough to eat in the future, that is likely what is going to have to happen. We'll still be eating beef--maybe more of it--but it will be grass fed out on the range, not feedlot fed out.

By the way, Greg, it's the Ogallala Aquifer, and it is indeed depleting. In a lot of the Texas Panhandle, where the aquifer level has been dropping deeper and deeper for years, pumping has already become uneconomical. Most of the Ogallala is considered "ancient" water, so we are essentially mining it. Once it's gone, it's gone.

[suzco]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

People love to slam beef as being an environmental nightmare. The problem is not with cattle themselves, but how Americans insist that their beef be raised--fed out on grain in a feed lot. That IS very wasteful, but it gives that nice marbled, fatty beef that we like to eat.. . .

There was an interesting op-ed piece in the NY Times by Nicolette Hahn Niman about this issue (talking about it in the context of global warming, rather than water depletion, but the discussion is germane).

The Carnivore’s Dilemma

[Josseppie]

Well Pueblo is now set for this century, so bring on the growth!

"The water board has purchased more than a quarter of the Bessemer Ditch, although some contracts have been extended beyond today’s deadline."

The link: http://www.chieftain.com/articles/2009/10/30/news/local/doc4aea820b23476116312791.txt

[Mike from back east]

Suzco, thanks for the link.

The grain-fed vs grass-fed issue is the real crux of the issues with beef, as discussed in the Omnivore's Dilemma and other books.

Cattle are designed to eat grass, not corn and grain. Cattle may start out on range land, but, IIRC, go to feedlots for about 6 months of fattening on grain, during which time they are fed a lot of antibiotics and other items to keep their ruminant stomachs working, else they get really sick and/or die from a feedlot diet. Swell stuff, huh.

Range land in the west is largely federal owned, thus we further subsidize the beef industry out of the taxpayers pocket, in addition to any farm subsidies for the corn/soy growers. If those rangelands are over-grazed then the soil gets compacted with yet another set of negative outcomes. If the taxpayers only knew what it's really costing them for that "dollar menu" at MacDonalds....but the industry is a master of burying factual data and keeping the public blissfully unaware. Mayor MacCheese is a major thief.

There are many side issues to this topic but relative to water, we use prodigious amounts of water to grow feed for cattle. As more people get the facts, we can expect people to eat less beef or switch to a grass fed variety.

[CosmicWizard]

Even though I gave up promoting ( more like ramming it down peoples throats ) vegetarianism more than 20 years ago, I still believe that everyone could improve their health with a vegetarian or mostly vegetarian diet. Health reasons aside, the resource consumption issue is hard to ignore. Whatever we are comfortable eating, it makes sense to choose foods produced in a way that uses the fewest resources.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Suzco, thanks for the link.

The grain-fed vs grass-fed issue is the real crux of the issues with beef, as discussed in the Omnivore's Dilemma and other books.

Cattle are designed to eat grass, not corn and grain. Cattle may start out on range land, but, IIRC, go to feedlots for about 6 months of fattening on grain, during which time they are fed a lot of antibiotics and other items to keep their ruminant stomachs working, else they get really sick and/or die from a feedlot diet. Swell stuff, huh.

Range land in the west is largely federal owned, thus we further subsidize the beef industry out of the taxpayers pocket, in addition to any farm subsidies for the corn/soy growers. If those rangelands are over-grazed then the soil gets compacted with yet another set of negative outcomes. If the taxpayers only knew what it's really costing them for that "dollar menu" at MacDonalds....but the industry is a master of burying factual data and keeping the public blissfully unaware. Mayor MacCheese is a major thief.

There are many side issues to this topic but relative to water, we use prodigious amounts of water to grow feed for cattle. As more people get the facts, we can expect people to eat less beef or switch to a grass fed variety.

Fact is, before cattle were grazing the mountainous areas of the Mountain West, the bison were. In fact, most range specialists will tell you that rangeland actually needs ruminant grazing to maintain a healthy ecosystem. The key is how that grazing is managed. Most people also don't know that those bison were as much a mountain animal as a plains animal, and that elk (actually "wapiti," if one wishes to be technical about it) were more of a plains animal until farming and settlement drove them into the mountains.

The vegetarians may also have to realize that we may no longer have the luxury of eating only plant matter that we can digest. Declining soil fertility, soaring energy costs and transportation costs, etc. and the resulting decline in grain production may eventually force us to eat grass-fed ruminant animals as a matter of survival. We like to credit our survival as a species to our supposed superior intelligence, but I would submit that our omnivorous ability to eat and digest just about anything (except cellulose) has as much or more to do with it. Nutritionally speaking, we can even eat each other! I hope it doesn't come to that, but the way things are going, anything is possible. We obese Americans would likely be considered a tasty repast--sort of like a juicy, well-marbled ribeye steak . . .