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It does happen all the time in southern states. Like I said in an earlier post, I get asked all the time which country club I belong to. I also get asked all the time where a good Kosher store is. I of course don't think it's a big deal.
People are going to think and act they way they were brought up, it's not a good or bad thing unless you decide it is.
You are right that simply asking the question should not necessarily be viewed as good or bad. However, it is the inevitable judgement of your answer that is not good.
I am judged on my Catholic beliefs by people from 'Bible' religions all the time. MY MANAGER (how over the line is that?) tried to evangelize me during an evaluation for crying out loud.
I have found through experience, as it seems have several other people on this board, that the question more often than not leads to a negative judgment. On top of that, I'm just not down living in a place where people cling to religion and guns (lol).
The 1916 "analysis" is way off. since 1900 there was a slow steady increase and peaked in 1933 then a decrease into the 60's then a sharp increase of more than 300% over the same time period. You have to look at violent crime trends not just homicide. With advances in medicine many people are living through what would have been fatal in years past.
The problem with your analysis is that it leaves out too many variables, namely rape being reported more frequently than previous generations and great changes in population (baby boom/mass migrations and immigrations) and anything resembling economic differences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbam
If you want to be more specific about it. Major cities tend to have larger crime rates correct. They are also more liberal where as rural areas tend to have less crime and are generally more conservative. A few major cities bring down the stats for an entire state.
Then why aren't the most Urbanised States the most dangerous? Connecticut, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island are not the most dangerous states, even with our gritty cities. New York City was the most dangerous city but now is the safest, why? By your logic none of this should be right because almost all crime happens in cities. What you would have to do is add up the population in all the cities and all the rural areas and then divide each by the total number of incidents: then I'll believe you. Even then, try to prove that the people causing the crimes are doing so because they don't have religion or whatever, just saying it doesn't make it true.
Street crime follows people in desperation by and large, in some countries the cities and countrysides are the safe spots while the suburbs are scary as hell (the Dublin or Paris suburbs for instance) and some the country side is dangerous but the cities and suburbs are pretty safe (South Africa).
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbam
We clearly took different psych courses. Often rebellion occurs but the severity of it is lessened when raised in a stable home with parents who are involved with their child and encourage healthy socializing i.e. church groups or sports.
This a secular non political article that talks about the decline in social institutions. http://www.jrsa.org/pubs/forum/forum...=&id=4c2ed20e7
Your source continually focuses on the interconnectedness of aspects of the old institutions, and it all seems to rest mostly on Economic drivers. And I wasn't talking about normal deviancy. I was talking about violent offenders, of which they really do run the gamut.
So, Moses chose people to be judges. That's quite like a representative republic that the Greeks and the Romans came up with, or the English won against absolutism with the Glorious Revolution, or the Iroquois Confederacy of which was admired by quite a few of the Framers. If we followed the Old Testament as our primary legal source my favourite meals would be verboten (mmm I love me some sinful Clam Chowder with it's cream based shellfishy goodness) and if we followed "Christian" law we would be a mess because there were so many codes that ended up getting swept away as the Medieval period subsided. And for hope and charity, hate to break it to you but there are more cultures than not that also have similar tenets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbam
I agree we are not as bad off as a lot of places and for me the good out ways the bad. If you are truly interested in opposing viewpoints I encourage you to look into opposing ideas yourself and not take someone word for it. I used to be an Agnostic and a Socialist believe it or not but in studying the "enemy" I found truth. Always keep an open mind and not assume that someone is wrong because it is contrary to what you have learned.
I like William F. Buckley, I enjoy the Economist, before the man from Adelaide made his play I really liked the WSJ. I also admire Leon Trotsky (the man who should've saved Russia), Muhammed Yunus, and Paul Krugman. I try to keep an open mind as much as possible, albeit I am human. But honestly, I smell crap from all directions just sadly its coming from the quote/unquote "conservative" movement. I really wish I could even see where they are coming from, it'd make me feel better honestly.
JV,
My apologies what you're going through, stuff like that is never easy. Sounds annoying as hell and hope you get a good portion of your money back.
That said, I'm not too sure just being cheaper solves those issues for everybody (even though from the sound of it perhaps for you personally), but I'd have to look at the stats. I did a check and what happened to you could happen in TX, NC, and I believe OK. And that was just checking those...
As for religion, I find that most people don't mind sharing. I don't. I don't usually start it, but I'll share what I know with anyone that wants to listen and maybe even have a good nature debate. But do I want your public school children to listen to the Shahada every morning in school? I do not. Do I want the Ten Comandments in every courthouse? I do not, unless there is like a replica Code of Hammurabi and the Magna Carta as a historical context thing. Prayer at the Capitol? Fine, but it's voluntary and at the request of those that wish for it. Banning kids from praying in school? Absolutely not, and I doubt any school would short of a pagan goat sacrifice. As for jerk Atheists, oh boy are they out there, but I think a lot of the people trying to keep civics and personal choice (myself included) aren't anti-god, although again I could be projecting haha.
Oh and before anyone tries to run with the tax thing above (tryingtomakeit etc) let me just stop you here. It basically came down to revaulation (Frankly because the town is broke and turning over rocks IMO) that they pushed back 4 years on about 100K worth of equipment, and my lease company screwing up payments. In the end, it was heavy handed tactics by the town who are acting like thugs and have state law and statue to back them up...an unjust law IMO. They wouldn't give me three days to get documentation together and just removed the cash from my account. (Legally I might add and I had no rights, and no recourse by state law.) Now I have to fight for it and hope the "mob boss" will agree to refund some of it which I will not see till the Fall at best IF it even happens. Great stuff, I feel like expanding.
*sigh* I do miss Manchester....NOT! That really sucks! Nothing more frustrating than dealing with bureaucrats who could give a flying fork about you and yours. How did you restrain yourself? How did you not light off large fireworks in their general direction??
*sigh* I do miss Manchester....NOT! That really sucks! Nothing more frustrating than dealing with bureaucrats who could give a flying fork about you and yours. How did you restrain yourself? How did you not light off large fireworks in their general direction??
I'm telling you...my house is going on the market next Spring - I'd like to get at least 6 months in it after killing myself on renovations. I wont' be leaving CT, but I'm out of this town.
I hear you, but what could I do? I said my piece about heavy handed unconstitutional law, and they basically said "yea, but it's still the law and we are going to exploit it." Fing bastards. And that's what it comes down to. Some over the top, frankly unconstitutional laws were passed at a state level and *some* towns are exploiting the laws to go after every dime and putting crazy fees and charges on top of it.
They don't give a flying crap. If I went into detail on how they are even "refunding" things to the lease company and then saying that it now makes the arrears and interest and fees etc valid - it's sickening.
I talked to the "town marshall" on Sunday and said I couldn't get all the documents on Friday together but will have them on Monday and freakin guy says "we work on our schedule not yours - I'm just going to hit your account" I swear to you, verbatim. I was like "You can't wait one day on a weekend?"
WHAT? When did Gotti start working for the town? It's unbelievable the power that the government has collected over the years with legislation on top of legislation. If I had the money, I would sue the town - but who's got that kind of bank just laying around?
I'm telling you...my house is going on the market next Spring - I'd like to get at least 6 months in it after killing myself on renovations. I wont' be leaving CT, but I'm out of this town.
I hear you, but what could I do? I said my piece about heavy handed unconstitutional law, and they basically said "yea, but it's still the law and we are going to exploit it." Fing bastards. And that's what it comes down to. Some over the top, frankly unconstitutional laws were passed at a state level and *some* towns are exploiting the laws to go after every dime and putting crazy fees and charges on top of it.
They don't give a flying crap. If I went into detail on how they are even "refunding" things to the lease company and then saying that it now makes the arrears and interest and fees etc valid - it's sickening.
I talked to the "town marshall" on Sunday and said I couldn't get all the documents on Friday together but will have them on Monday and freakin guy says "we work on our schedule not yours - I'm just going to hit your account" I swear to you, verbatim. I was like "You can't wait one day on a weekend?"
WHAT? When did Gotti start working for the town? It's unbelievable the power that the government has collected over the years with legislation on top of legislation. If I had the money, I would sue the town - but who's got that kind of bank just laying around?
You should look to the Eastern portion of the state..It's not perfect, but there are some advantages to living here. In Lebanon, although I bitched about my tax increase, at least they are reasonable about it. I can afford 200 bucks a year increases every so often; I dont like it, but you get the picture. IMO Manchester is cutting it's own throat. When guys like you start moving out in large numbers, then they'll rue the day...
The problem with your analysis is that it leaves out too many variables, namely rape being reported more frequently than previous generations and great changes in population (baby boom/mass migrations and immigrations) and anything resembling economic differences.
How does it leave out to many variables? I am looking at hard numbers not theoretical crimes. IMO there were probably a lot of rapes that went un reported but the same still happens today. And the numbers I referenced went by population (per 1000 so yes it does take into account "booms". Also the immigrant communities generally have less crime per capita than the native population. So that would help the numbers a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeker2211
Then why aren't the most Urbanised States the most dangerous? Connecticut, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island are not the most dangerous states, even with our gritty cities. New York City was the most dangerous city but now is the safest, why? By your logic none of this should be right because almost all crime happens in cities. What you would have to do is add up the population in all the cities and all the rural areas and then divide each by the total number of incidents: then I'll believe you. Even then, try to prove that the people causing the crimes are doing so because they don't have religion or whatever, just saying it doesn't make it true.
Don't look now but your esquire is showing. you are twisting my words as though I am a hostile witness. I said "Major cities tend to have larger crime rates" there are exceptions and ebb and flow. You think CT is urban It's one big suburb not at all like the rest of the nation. The NE population is pretty spread out which is different than the rest of the country.
look at Hartford's crime rate 637.1 and the rest of CT is there a rural area that is close to that if there is I am not aware of it.
Would those criminals have commited the crimes they did if they were following God, Buddha, or Muhammad? there is your answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeker2211
Street crime follows people in desperation by and large, in some countries the cities and countrysides are the safe spots while the suburbs are scary as hell (the Dublin or Paris suburbs for instance) and some the country side is dangerous but the cities and suburbs are pretty safe (South Africa).
How desperate could the gangsters in Hartford be? with the generous welfare programs in this state they don't even need to try and work. desperate and driving $50k cars
I thought we were talking about the US... If you want to debate South Africa DM or Paris. how about Rome or Liberia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeker2211
Your source continually focuses on the interconnectedness of aspects of the old institutions, and it all seems to rest mostly on Economic drivers. And I wasn't talking about normal deviancy. I was talking about violent offenders, of which they really do run the gamut.
Yes old institutions that helped prop up family values. Not really sure what you meant by that last part you will have to clarify sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeker2211
So, Moses chose people to be judges. That's quite like a representative republic that the Greeks and the Romans came up with, or the English won against absolutism with the Glorious Revolution, or the Iroquois Confederacy of which was admired by quite a few of the Framers. If we followed the Old Testament as our primary legal source my favourite meals would be verboten (mmm I love me some sinful Clam Chowder with it's cream based shellfishy goodness) and if we followed "Christian" law we would be a mess because there were so many codes that ended up getting swept away as the Medieval period subsided. And for hope and charity, hate to break it to you but there are more cultures than not that also have similar tenets.
You can choose to deny the link between our modern republic and the Government in the old testament but regardless if you want to acknowledge it or not that was the starting point. And our founders never separated God from Government only a specific church or religion. This is absolutely undeniable. Again with your twisting of words I never said that all of our laws are exactly the laws from the Old Testament. Is that a natural trait or is it something you have to work at?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeker2211
I like William F. Buckley, I enjoy the Economist, before the man from Adelaide made his play I really liked the WSJ. I also admire Leon Trotsky (the man who should've saved Russia), Muhammed Yunus, and Paul Krugman. I try to keep an open mind as much as possible, albeit I am human. But honestly, I smell crap from all directions just sadly its coming from the quote/unquote "conservative" movement. I really wish I could even see where they are coming from, it'd make me feel better honestly.
You like William F Buckley Jr.? My favorite quote from him is "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."
When you say conservative do you mean Neo-con, Libertarian, or people like my grandparents who were life long democrats but are far right of where you guys are today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeker2211
JV,
My apologies what you're going through, stuff like that is never easy. Sounds annoying as hell and hope you get a good portion of your money back.
That said, I'm not too sure just being cheaper solves those issues for everybody (even though from the sound of it perhaps for you personally), but I'd have to look at the stats. I did a check and what happened to you could happen in TX, NC, and I believe OK. And that was just checking those...
Seriously he is being railroaded.
Hey since you are a lawyer why don't you offer your services pro-bono J/K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeker2211
As for religion, I find that most people don't mind sharing. I don't. I don't usually start it, but I'll share what I know with anyone that wants to listen and maybe even have a good nature debate. But do I want your public school children to listen to the Shahada every morning in school? I do not. Do I want the Ten Comandments in every courthouse? I do not, unless there is like a replica Code of Hammurabi and the Magna Carta as a historical context thing. Prayer at the Capitol? Fine, but it's voluntary and at the request of those that wish for it. Banning kids from praying in school? Absolutely not, and I doubt any school would short of a pagan goat sacrifice. As for jerk Atheists, oh boy are they out there, but I think a lot of the people trying to keep civics and personal choice (myself included) aren't anti-god, although again I could be projecting haha.
~Best of luck
We can absolutely agree here I don't think that anyone should be made to pray. It should be allowed on a voluntary basis though IMO. That is where I am coming from. You have a freedom of religion not from it if you are easily offended by someone praying peacefully you have more serious issues to consider. Just as there are jerk atheist there are jerk Christians I don't want to be evangelized to. And that has not been my intent here. Only to explain that our founders were overwhelmingly Christian (many not orthodox or belonged to a particular congregation but Christian none the less) and those values that shaped their minds and lives made it's way into our culture and shaped us. As JViello and I have said on another thread you should read "The 5000 Year Leap" it will more eloquently explain my position than I ever could.
My apologies to the OP for helping to hijack the thread.
You are right that simply asking the question should not necessarily be viewed as good or bad. However, it is the inevitable judgement of your answer that is not good.
I am judged on my Catholic beliefs by people from 'Bible' religions all the time. MY MANAGER (how over the line is that?) tried to evangelize me during an evaluation for crying out loud.
I have found through experience, as it seems have several other people on this board, that the question more often than not leads to a negative judgment. On top of that, I'm just not down living in a place where people cling to religion and guns (lol).
I try not to worry too much about what others think about my spiritual beliefs, and no I am not Jewish but if I were I probably would know of some good stores to buy kosher products (Crown Market perhaps) they are open Christmas day My point that I'm trying to make is that people are trying to connect with others, by asking your interest. Whether it be by asking what church or what country club, synagogue or temple. I don't get offended by these questions. If you perceive them to be rude then they are rude. They could be perceived as a compliment.
BTW- you mentioned "guns" Yes Texans Love them, but apparently so do Nutmeger's. Have you seen how many Gun manufacturers are here in this beautiful state?? Not only that, you can get a license to carry here-
btw- my brother who is a Texan tells me all the time to keep my passport current, He says I will need it to get back into the Lone Star State. LOL
You are right that simply asking the question should not necessarily be viewed as good or bad. However, it is the inevitable judgement of your answer that is not good.
I am judged on my Catholic beliefs by people from 'Bible' religions all the time. MY MANAGER (how over the line is that?) tried to evangelize me during an evaluation for crying out loud.
I have found through experience, as it seems have several other people on this board, that the question more often than not leads to a negative judgment. On top of that, I'm just not down living in a place where people cling to religion and guns (lol).
I was brought up Catholic/ Baptist. Did you know that existed? I have seen many bible's in Catholic churches.
If you don't know what I mean by bible evangelicals then you really shouldn't comment, because you don't know.
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What you would have to do is add up the population in all the cities and all the rural areas and then divide each by the total number of incidents: then I'll believe you. Even then, try to prove that the people causing the crimes are doing so because they don't have religion or whatever, just saying it doesn't make it true.
It's one big suburb not at all like the rest of the nation. The NE population is pretty spread out which is different than the rest of the country. 
My point that I'm trying to make is that people are trying to connect with others, by asking your interest. Whether it be by asking what church or what country club, synagogue or temple. I don't get offended by these questions. If you perceive them to be rude then they are rude. They could be perceived as a compliment. 
