[JayCT]

Originally Posted by Uconn97

I was wondering at what point this thread would go sour. It actually happened much faster than I thought it would. Nice job!

Could we maybe, just maybe have 1 thread that doesn't turn into a negative slam on something? We all know hartford has its crummy spots. Pretty sure we have beaten that to death a few times.

I agree. What major city is not this way? They have their nice areas and their not so nice areas. Is Hartford really any different than say Providence, Albany or Atlanta. New York has tons of neighborhoods that are rundown but do you judge that city on those neighborhoods? No you base your judgement on Manhattan or more specifically midtown or downtown.

I agree that it is tiresome to hear the same complaints on this Board from people who seem to do little to change things. I get the same thing from family all the time. They complain about something but don't follow through to try and change things. Enough already. Jay

[JViello]

Originally Posted by JayCT

I agree. What major city is not this way? They have their nice areas and their not so nice areas. Is Hartford really any different than say Providence, Albany or Atlanta. New York has tons of neighborhoods that are rundown but do you judge that city on those neighborhoods? No you base your judgement on Manhattan or more specifically midtown or downtown.

I agree that it is tiresome to hear the same complaints on this Board from people who seem to do little to change things. I get the same thing from family all the time. They complain about something but don't follow through to try and change things. Enough already. Jay

NYC is in a different league. Same for Atlanta.

BUT, none of those cities are 70% ghetto. If you want to compare apples to apples

Nashville
Charlotte
Raleigh
Phoenix
Orlando
Portland (OR)
Tulsa
Colorado Springs
Salt Lake City
Austin

Do NOT have the depressed market we have - Again, name a project not getting state funding downtown in the last 20 years? The AI building is all I can come up with. We have had one building go up in 22 years, and it got a pile of state money to make it happen. 22 years. If that's not depressed I don't know what is. No one wants to invest here. Why?

The dowtowns of the cities listed above are generally clean, alive, busy with activity and development and not ringed by clapped out ghettos with one of the highest murder rates in the nation.

Stepping off the plane in Tampa, COS, Nashville etc and spending time at a conference etc and coming back here is depressing. Have you BEEN to downtown Charlotte? Having lived there 12 years ago, visting back several times I'm floored by what they were able to accomplish. It makes Hartford look pathetic. More so when you realize the cities were similar size 20 years ago.

Try and make a video like this for Hartford, good luck:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOq4h-ss2lI

Hey look, it's clean, not ghetto, there is literally billions of $ in PRIVATE investment, over 10,000 new residents in downtown, shopping centers even a Home Depot.

And FWIW I did try to effect change here. It's pointless. The same retards get voted in and screw things up time and time again. It's like p*ssing in the wind. So the change I have to make now, is personal. We are out, and I know a LOOOOT of people who have recently made that decision too.

I hung on as long as I could...but I'm not going to wake up 55 years old miserable and broke trying to figure out what the hell happened to my life.

[Tetto]

Wow, those Hartford videos are sweet. Makes you wonder why the people waving those flags stay here...Oh wait a minute, thats the democrats voting base...!

[JayCT]

JViello - I disagree with you. The cities you mention have problems similar to Hartford but the problems are watered down in statistics by those cities encompassing a large portion of their suburbs. Phoenix and Orlando have some of the highest foreclosure rates in the country. Most have sprawl that goes on forever. Atlanta has some of the worst ghettos in the country. Salt Lake City is fine if you agree with the strict principles of the Mormon Church. None of these cities are perfect and don't think they are. You should know because you have talked about some of them as well. Jay

[JViello]

Originally Posted by JayCT

You should know because you have talked about some of them as well. Jay

Yep, and you know what...I would never live in Atlanta, but again it's not in the same league as Hartford and roughly 5 times the size. I'm not talking about stastical data, but in an area of 120,000 people to have 30+ murders is nuts. Atlanta has over 5 times the population, yet only twice the murders.

However, I've overlooked a loooooot of crap in this region to try and make the best of it. The gloves are off now, and is "is". I'm no longer going to sugar coat things. The history is nice, the landscape beautiful. Our cities and industry in Hartford is horrible.

Traveling around the past few years trying to nail down a possible relocation has also opened my eyes. I was wrong in some ways about other cities, and if I'm being honest with myself I think I was more or less trying to justify why I live here.

This place is depressed Jay. There is nothing going on. Nothing. No job growth, no development, no influx of people and hasn't been for over 20 years. CT died in 1989 and has not recovered. It just trudges along.

A region can not depend on government to be the sole developer and investor in the city and that's what's going on here. No one wants to put investment into the city. Ever wonder why? The small amount of momentum that got going 10 years ago fizzled out. We have a state run hospital, a state run airport, state built convention center, state funded science center, state funded college downtown, state built stadium, state funded housing developments downtown etc etc.

Compare Charlotte and Hartford from 1989 to now. I dare you.

[MetsNY]

You can talk about Charlotte, Nashville, Phoenix, Atlanta all you want. The fact of the matter is those places are "new" cities. Hartford grew a long time ago. There is still a large executive base in Hartford. Hartford's economy may look bad but they the companies still headquartered there are raking in money.

A place like Charlotte and Phoenix saw booms in economic growth during the up times, but as someone mentioned there is still a large foreclosure rate there and their economies are suffering too. It may not seem that way because all you see is development, but there has been a lot of development all around the nation that now looks like it never should have been developed in the first place.

Hartford as a city seems dangerous and run down also because of it's size. Southern and Western cities traditionally are much more widespread and encompass a lot more land. Their problems are hidden.

East Atlanta is far worse than anything in Hartford.

[JViello]

Originally Posted by MetsNY

You can talk about Charlotte, Nashville, Phoenix, Atlanta all you want. The fact of the matter is those places are "new" cities. Hartford grew a long time ago. There is still a large executive base in Hartford. Hartford's economy may look bad but they the companies still headquartered there are raking in money.

A place like Charlotte and Phoenix saw booms in economic growth during the up times, but as someone mentioned there is still a large foreclosure rate there and their economies are suffering too. It may not seem that way because all you see is development, but there has been a lot of development all around the nation that now looks like it never should have been developed in the first place.

Hartford as a city seems dangerous and run down also because of it's size. Southern and Western cities traditionally are much more widespread and encompass a lot more land. Their problems are hidden.

East Atlanta is far worse than anything in Hartford.

Wait...so once a city gets to a certain size and age, it will never grow anymore? Huh, who knew. I guess that whole boom Hartford had in the 80's was a fluke...same back in the 60's. Hartford from 1950 to 1990 grew 185%. Why 3% in the last 20 years? Charlotte was exactly the same size as Hartford in 1990, but was half the size in 1950, it just kept on growing...Hartford did not. (We are talking metros here not city limits.) Charlotte is now almost twice the size of Hartford.

The last 20 years nothing has developed forward that was not partially or wholly state funded. I'm not sure what part of that is not clear.

As for the corporations being here...we are losing them slowly, and frankly don't be fooled by where they are incorporated. Point in case, UTC has about 207,000 employees and 26,000 in CT with that number shrinking, NOT expanding. GE is building a nice new commercial engine plant in NC. Why not CT where it's headquartered? Hmmm.

Travelers has 32,000 employees, with only 5600 in CT.

The Hartford has 30,000 employees with 11,000 in CT, and a large expanded campus in...Charlotte

Aetna has about 34,000 employees with less than 6500 here. (And shrinking) They have very nice campuses in FL, GA and PA yet just abandonded their huge Middletown campus and are going to destroy it. This one that used to house over 5000 people:



On and on. It seems these companies have expanded...but not here, if anything they have reduced workforce here. I wonder why. These are NOT companies like Walmart that HAVE to have locations around the nation, they are paper pushers.

Hartford IS run down and it has nothing to do with it's size. I've got news for you Boston is in the same shoes and has 600,000 people in 40 square miles, while Hartford is 120,000 in 17, but Boston is not a sh*thole. As far as the other boom towns having a crash, it's easy to point out we had no where to crash FROM which is the entire point.

These are the realities that our region will not open it's eyes too. Instead we look at grand old buildings and corporate headquarters and think all is well. But it's not. These companies are expanding elsewhere, the city is DOA and our state government is broke and bloated yet won't put down the fork.

[JayCT]

JViello - Maybe it is just time you moved out of Connecticut and finally find this great wonderful place that you keep thinking is out there. Go to Charlotte or Atlanta or wherever that is and live in an area with uncontrolable growth and poor planning and then come back and tell us how wonderful it is. If that is what you want, go for it. But it is not for me. Jay

[JViello]

Originally Posted by JayCT

JViello - Maybe it is just time you moved out of Connecticut and finally find this great wonderful place that you keep thinking is out there. Go to Charlotte or Atlanta or wherever that is and live in an area with uncontrolable growth and poor planning and then come back and tell us how wonderful it is. If that is what you want, go for it. But it is not for me. Jay

I did...remember? I'm not guessing at things. I was forced back to CT in 1995 from Florida and promptly left late 96 as soon as I could. I made the mistake of returning to CT in 1998 thinking THIS was that great wonderful place. The best thing I ever did for my life was moving to Orlando in 1990 and getting out of the ghetto's of Waterbury. I am not interested in living there again, but I would not change the experience for anything.

I am moving. I just wish everyone with their head in the sand would face the hard facts and reality that I've pointed out in this thread. People who are potentially moving here, deserve to know the reality. I've kept silent long enough and fooled my self even longer.

Why did the Hartford metro grow 185% from 1950 to 1990 and then fall dead on it's face and MAYBE grow 3% since then?

They raised taxes and increased government in the face of a recession.

Congratulations CT you just repeated history.

[JayCT]

And you did the same thing last year and canceled it. Back then you were complaining too and then you changed your mind and stuck around. Growth is not everything. Quality of living is and from all that I have read from various sources we have a high quality of life here. That is enough for me. Jay