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Old 07-10-2011, 06:54 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,227 posts, read 4,701,750 times
Reputation: 2462
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucsLose View Post
Controversial Tuition Law Signed | NBC Connecticut


Unreal. If someone is illegal, and the state knows it they should be deported not given rights of a legal citizen. Does the term illegal mean anything?
Why are you surprised? This is the same guy that ran Stamford into the ground so far that they cant have fireworks on the fourth of July.
Its a very sad exhibition of irresponsibility & ignorance of the people of CT that this guy was elected at all.

 
Old 07-10-2011, 06:57 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,227 posts, read 4,701,750 times
Reputation: 2462
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
I am anti-greed.

Corporate greed.
Union greed.

It's killing us.

No, political greed is killing us.
My taxes dont go up because of corporate greed, nor because of union greed, they are what they are as a DIRECT result of liberal political policies & greed. You can avoid corporate & union greed, but not governmental.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 07:13 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,227 posts, read 4,701,750 times
Reputation: 2462
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
This has been discussed already...

In any case, I am all for it. While undocumented, these are the exact people who we want on a path to citizenship.... People who have done all the right things-- Graduated high school and done so with sufficient academic achievement to be admitted to a state university.
If they graduated high school then they have already stolen tens of thousands from us. They did nothing right because the first thing they did, enter the country illegally, was a crime. Or is it ok to get a college degree by robbing a bank?

Quote:
These children did not come here of their own accord-- They were brought here by their parents illegal. They have no fault for the situation they are in.
Thats irrelevant. We dont allow out of state kids to do the same thing simply because its not their fault where they live. This will get in the way of honest tax paying American young people that the system was created to benefit.

Quote:
This country was built on the backs of immigrants. There is nothing special, superior, unique or privileged about being American. There is, however, something special about being able to attend college. I don't see why we wouldn't give them the same tuition break that we give every other high school graduate in Connecticut...
Immigrants like my grandparents who jumped hurdles & spend months if not years satisfying the requirements to enter. It was NOT built on the backs of people that swam a river & had babies to milk the system. It wad built by people who came here & contributed to it. I feel safe saying that if your FIRST effort in the US was breaking the law we dont need you.

Quote:
I know that some think that these "illegals" are taking all our jobs (if you want to pick apples for a living), and some think that it's just plain wrong because they did not immigrate legally (almost impossible to do if you are an agrian worker from Mexico). However, they serve a necessary economic role in the US.... Unless you want to pay $8 a pound for Oranges, that is.
We dont grow oranges in CT. I'm not against illegals in the sense I think they are stealing our work. I work with many Latin people & some I'm sure dont belong here. But I am against giving ANYONE ANY benefits if they are here illegally. If you want to work & feed your family fine, if you want to milk us & contribute to our economic downslide thats a different story.

Quote:
In any case, mazel tov to the Connecticut State government for being humane and decent and on the side of welfare of ALL peoples instead of the close-minded, hard-edged and cut-throat attitude that has (sadly) become embedded in much of our citizenry.
Yes, God forbid the state do its job and enforce the law equally across the board. Much easier to change the law & further erode any sense of right & wrong.

Quote:
This is the humane, moral and right thing to do.
How is stealing from the taxpayers to fund education of someone elses kids moral? In the end this thinking will see NOBODY get tuition breaks.

Quote:
Congratulations to all those who have the door of college (and a better life) opened to them due to this law.
Dont you mean congratulations to the children of criminals who managed to lobby a govt they dont pay for to give their kids something they dont deserve at great expense to the country they snuck into? The word parasite comes to mind.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 08:13 AM
 
Location: New England
8,156 posts, read 12,291,228 times
Reputation: 3152
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
Good post, JViello. I agree with much of what you said.

If the penalties for employers were stiff enough, this type of thing would happen less often. Isn't it better to go after the source of the work than to play a never ending cat and mouse game with millions of undocumented immigrants.

If the work dries up they will mostly go away.
I agree that if the work goes away so will they. However I'm not so sure I can put the responsibility on the company. Again, unless you run a 100% cash business, it's extremely hard to hide employees. There is simply a large paper trail from payroll to your P&L that will throw red flags up.

I'm telling you, they get paperwork. Most do. Do you realize the IRS will give illegals a tax payer ID. In New Haven you can get an ID now, so you show up with an ID, and tax ID #. Am I supposed to play detective now and figure out their legal status? I don't know of any decently large company who's HR department that will just and forge documents for them, not require them, or break tax laws via evasion or false reporting. It just doesn't happen.

For instance, I know of a chip manufacturer in Hartford (As in snack chips like "food should taste good", "Trader Joes", "Gringo Mountain" etc) that employs several Mexicans of a family who run a restaurant here in Manchester. I KNOW some of them are illegal, and I know they have forged documents because I know the family. Am I supposed to play ICE agent? Does the employer suspect some of them are not legal? I'm sure. But does the employer start discriminating against Latinos because they fear some may have forged documents?

I put that responsibility upon the federal government. They are the ones that are supposed to protect the borders and enforce immigration policy. Asking the companies to do it, is like asking the DOT to do social work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
I'm not against illegals in the sense I think they are stealing our work. I work with many Latin people & some I'm sure dont belong here.
And that's just it...citizens are not supposed to be put in a position to do immigration enforcement.

I tried it once, and it was futile. There was a landscape company next to our old shop, and every day two car loads of Latinos with MA plates would roll in. At the end of the day, those who got back first would go hide in the woods till everyone got back and they would pile in the car and tear out of there.

I'm pretty sure they were not legal, so I looked up our immigration enforcement office and made a call, explained what I saw and asked them to look into it...wait, no I didn't because I got the big fat government stonewall before even getting that far. Everywhere I called, no one gave two sh*ts.

Futile, and not my job.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Fairfield County, CT
6,773 posts, read 4,470,397 times
Reputation: 3680
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaMarley View Post
First off, your attitude is absurd! You want to allow illegals to come here, stay here, work here, get their college degree off the backs of taxpaying citizens who are barely making ends meet themselves.
No. I want productive undocumented residents to be able to get a college degree and pay the same tuition as any other high school graduate in Connecticut. These are people who are likley to become assets to out country due to their education and dedicated work ethic. The only thing that's absurd is your hysterical hyperbolizing my position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaMarley View Post
wake up and smell the coffee mlassoff. we're in the worst recession in decades, thousands of people are losing their homes, have lost their jobs, have no way to survive. There's a ton of parents I'm sure who can no longer send their kids off to college, like they used to. I'm guessing though, they badly want to. College is expensive.
Instead of blaming those who are breaking the law directly, the illegals, you think instead, we ought to just give them "a break", not bother them, and go after the companies hiring them. Wrong! Very wrong! BOTH of them are breaking the laws.
Why would I blame undocumented residents for the current recession? I blame the greedy corporate infrastructure that bet the house on risky securities which came back to bite all of us. What about the people in the financial sector who probably broke the law and caused the recession? What about anger at the SEC who looked the other way as rating firms committed out and out fraud?

Maybe it's just easier to direct your anger at the relatively helpless undocumented worker working tobacco fields in Enfield.

It's the height of hypocrisy to go after the workers but ignore the companies who hire them, as you seem to advocate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaMarley View Post
You want to consider being here illegally a "civil" matter, not a crime. A civil matter would be, if I was a homeowner and built a fence that was too high or in violation of the town codes. That's more a civil matter.
I can see you're not in law school, or I dearly hope you're not.

Please don't condescend, especially when you're just wrong. It has nothing to do with what I want. It has to do with what is. You don't have to be an attorney to know we have civil laws and criminal laws. Criminal laws are listed in the criminal code and have a criminal sanction such as fines or imprisonment. Immigration law is NOT criminal law. No one goes to jail for an immigration violation. I don't know why you insist on debating something that is simply factual and that you could learn with a simple Google search.

Last edited by JayCT; 07-11-2011 at 06:50 AM.. Reason: Removed Attack Quote
 
Old 07-10-2011, 10:39 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,227 posts, read 4,701,750 times
Reputation: 2462
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
No. I want productive undocumented residents to be able to get a college degree and pay the same tuition as any other high school graduate in Connecticut. These are people who are likley to become assets to out country due to their education and dedicated work ethic. The only thing that's absurd is your hysterical hyperbolizing my position.
So, as long as ANYBODY gets YOU to think their kids will be productive you want to take a gift we offer to bonofied tax paying residents and give it to them. These are people who will, without a doubt be sitting in seats WE provide for OUR children.



Quote:
Why would I blame undocumented residents for the current recession? I blame the greedy corporate infrastructure that bet the house on risky securities which came back to bite all of us. What about the people in the financial sector who probably broke the law and caused the recession? What about anger at the SEC who looked the other way as rating firms committed out and out fraud?
They may not be to blame but they sure dont help.


Quote:
It's the height of hypocrisy to go after the workers but ignore the companies who hire them, as you seem to advocate.
No, its the height of hypocrisy to go after the owners while giving the illegals all sorts of perks to be here. If we didn't let them in they couldn't be hired. You want to arrest a man for giving them a job and at the same time praise the govt for educateing them so they can get jobs. If its a crime to let them work for you it sure ought to be a crime to let them in our public schools & state colleges.

Quote:
Please don't condescend, especially when you're just wrong. It has nothing to do with what I want. It has to do with what is. You don't have to be an attorney to know we have civil laws and criminal laws. Criminal laws are listed in the criminal code and have a criminal sanction such as fines or imprisonment. Immigration law is NOT criminal law. No one goes to jail for an immigration violation. I don't know why you insist on debating something that is simply factual and that you could learn with a simple Google search.
I think you are mistaken. I find it hard to believe jumping the border is a civil offense & not a criminal one. If its not its needs changing.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 10:50 AM
 
Location: NE TN~ TriCities
4,954 posts, read 6,002,599 times
Reputation: 6800
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
There is nothing special, superior, unique or privileged about being American.
So why the hordes of people entering illegally, sometimes risking their lives to do so? Why all the lobbying for the same privileges that belong to legal citizens?
 
Old 07-10-2011, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Out in the stix
1,264 posts, read 1,047,831 times
Reputation: 681
This is really a shame when illegals are getting the same benefits
 
Old 07-10-2011, 12:50 PM
 
521 posts, read 561,765 times
Reputation: 212
Default Thanks for backing me up Tin Knocker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
So, as long as ANYBODY gets YOU to think their kids will be productive you want to take a gift we offer to bonofied tax paying residents and give it to them. These are people who will, without a doubt be sitting in seats WE provide for OUR children.



They may not be to blame but they sure dont help.


No, its the height of hypocrisy to go after the owners while giving the illegals all sorts of perks to be here. If we didn't let them in they couldn't be hired. You want to arrest a man for giving them a job and at the same time praise the govt for educating them so they can get jobs. If its a crime to let them work for you it sure ought to be a crime to let them in our public schools & state colleges.

I think you are mistaken. I find it hard to believe jumping the border is a civil offense & not a criminal one. If its not its needs changing.

And you're missing my point, totally mslassoff.
You're stating this, "
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaMarley
wake up and smell the coffee mlassoff. we're in the worst recession in decades, thousands of people are losing their homes, have lost their jobs, have no way to survive. There's a ton of parents I'm sure who can no longer send their kids off to college, like they used to. I'm guessing though, they badly want to. College is expensive.
Instead of blaming those who are breaking the law directly, the illegals, you think instead, we ought to just give them "a break", not bother them, and go after the companies hiring them. Wrong! Very wrong! BOTH of them are breaking the laws.


Why would I blame undocumented residents for the current recession? I blame the greedy corporate infrastructure that bet the house on risky securities which came back to bite all of us. What about the people in the financial sector who probably broke the law and caused the recession? What about anger at the SEC who looked the other way as rating firms committed out and out fraud?

Maybe it's just easier to direct your anger at the relatively helpless undocumented worker working tobacco fields in Enfield.

It's the height of hypocrisy to go after the workers but ignore the companies who hire them, as you seem to advocate. "

I'm not blaming the illegals directly for the state of the economy, but the last thing the taxpayers need to do, is to pay out of pocket to front their kids tuition, when they can hardly make it themselves, the us citizens, I'm talking about.
you're twisting my words here, mslassoff. They need to start cutting programs, not funding additional ones.
If you were just handed a pink slip, would you go out, order a brand new paint job for your car, new car interior, new wheels, a new engine, etc.?
Course not... but our govt is footing the bill for something that shouldn't have been suggested in the first place, and now is hardly the time we taxpayers ought to be footing the college education for illegal aliens children.
It's NOT right. Our kids too, can be devoted, good workers. See, our own citizens are being discriminated against, yet, those whose parents think its their RIGHT to come to a country illegally, stay here for years, have many children, and then EXPECT that same place to PAY for their kids tuition.. my god... I cannot understand why ANYONE would think that's fair and reasonable.
You're just rewarding bad behavior with this attitude.
Now my question to the posters here is, is there any chance we can get the bill revoked, or has it already passed the house and the senate?
If not, start writing your legislatures and protest this bill.
 
Old 07-10-2011, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Twin Lakes /Taconic / Salisbury
2,154 posts, read 1,206,838 times
Reputation: 1621
I think you are mistaken. I find it hard to believe jumping the border is a civil offense & not a criminal one. If its not its needs changing.


All I know regarding that is I have never seen anyone handcuffed for a CIVIL infraction.... But, I have personally seen many handcuffed for simply "jumping the border". Any other "civil offenses" people get handcuffed, spend time in a holding cell, and then deported for out there?????

All I know is if you are not a TAX PAYING CITIZEN, you do NOT deserve the benefits of one. I know there is a legal way for illegals to pay income tax, but I've never met one that does. Maybe they exist, but I bet the numbers are minimal.
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