[Stratford, Ct. Resident]

Originally Posted by bobtn

The elderly use far more services than all except kids, and often with taxes frozen, and income down vs their working years, they receive more in services than the tax they presently pay.

The topic of this thread is CONNECTICUT.

The reduced amount of federal taxes that the elderly pay is not germane to what is being discussed here!

The retirees are still paying the same(or very nearly) amount of property taxes!!

[EHCT]

Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident

I disagree.

A typical school district is shelling out ~$10K per student each year. I know many people with 2 and 3 kids. And believe me, they aren't paying anywhere even remotely close to $20 or $30K in property taxes.

You need "old" people, along with childless adults, to subsidize the cost of educating these kids. I don't see any upside to our state getting "younger".

Your assertion that CT should get “older” rather than “younger” in order to lessen the state’s budgetary strain does not jibe with any publication that I’ve read. Young adults with no children will help but the emphasis should remain focused on “young”.

It’s a commonly held notion that in most circumstances, states with an ageing demographic profile have difficult hurdles to overcome. These difficulties are most glaring in areas such as short & long term healthcare, slow economic and industrial growth. If CT’s population shades toward “middle age” as you’d prefer, how do you expect the state to attract new businesses and stimulate the economy? Keep in mind that money needed to fund a particular town’s budget primarily comes from business done in that area and not necessarily from property or income taxes paid by its residents. Even if tax revenue obtained from property and income taxes did represent the bulk of budgetary funding, how is an ageing demographic going to support that? Many people who are of retirement age look to move to states with less of a tax burden. Some of the retirees that do stay may eventually look to downsize (i.e. move to a small condo) or may ultimately wind up in assisted living.

At any rate, the hallmarks of most thriving economies are based on cultivating young talent. Japan had to learn this the hard way in the early 90’s. The country’s ageing work force coupled with their seniority based corporate model crippled the economy for years. During that time young Japanese workers were virtually fazed out of all corporate positions more advanced than the entry-level. The older employees were not leaving the more senior positions which meant that most companies were left paying higher wages while also producing very little in the way of innovation. This combination ground the economy to a halt until the country decided to change their long standing corporate ideology.

All of this is just my long winded way of disagreeing with your view that an older CT would be a better CT. If the state cannot keep young adults from leaving then pretty soon you’ll find that attracting businesses (the life blood of a thriving economy) will also become increasingly difficult. In most CT towns that I’m aware of, having a budget based primarily off of real estate taxes isn’t going to get the job done.

[bobtn]

Stratford, Ct,.. I was referring to the reduced income taxes elderly pay to Ct. Do you think their Ct income tax liability stays stagnant when their IRS liability declines (LOL)?

I gave the reader enough credit to infer that fact.

EHCT, Your post was spot on, and not long-winded at all. Relevent, yes. I have yet to see any expert advocate chasing away young professionals; quite, the contrary. Its about building a tax base for the next several decades, not just for 2012. W/O them, budgets have the same crippling problems legacy costs have left many old-fashion corps with, and growth stops, while one still loses their share of existing corps, as new, young talent is not available.

[Stratford, Ct. Resident]

Originally Posted by EHCT

It’s a commonly held notion that in most circumstances, states with an ageing demographic profile have difficult hurdles to overcome. These difficulties are most glaring in areas such as short & long term healthcare

Medicare is primarily from the federal level. An aging populace won't impact CT's state health care expenditures negatively if young children have moved away, and therefore are not utilizing Husky/etc.

Originally Posted by EHCT

Keep in mind that money needed to fund a particular town’s budget primarily comes from business done in that area and not necessarily from property or income taxes paid by its residents.

Please list which towns/cities in CT receive the majority of their tax revenue from business entities.

Originally Posted by EHCT

During that time young Japanese workers were virtually fazed out of all corporate positions more advanced than the entry-level. The older employees were not leaving the more senior positions which meant that most companies were left paying higher wages while also producing very little in the way of innovation. This combination ground the economy to a halt until the country decided to change their long standing corporate ideology.

I'm not fazed(sic) by the ills of various countries. It's irrelevant to this topic.

[EHCT]

Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident

Medicare is primarily from the federal level. An aging populace won't impact CT's state health care expenditures negatively if young children have moved away, and therefore are not utilizing Husky/etc.

What about state pensions ? That money comes directly from the state budget. States such as Illinois, New Jersey and Minnesota have had to make significant shifts in the how their operating budgets are funded because of their ageing populations. Also, economists use what is called a dependency ratio which is a comparison of non-working citizens (age younger than 15yrs. and older than 65yrs.) in relation to the working citizens tasked with supporting them. The dependency ratio of a particular area is used to help them monitor economic health. A population demographic that is increasing with age will eventually become unsustainable. Hence the reason states prefer to keep young working adults within their borders. Young working adults are crucial in maintaining a thriving economy. I'm not sure what part of this is confusing.

Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident

Please list which towns/cities in CT receive the majority of their tax revenue from business entities.

I'll address this with request with some questions of my own. How has East Hartford been doing since Pratt & Whitney left. Would you say the city of Hartford is doing better now that the insurance companies moved their headquarters out of the city. Any way you slice it, the state's economy cannot thrive without attracting business. There aren't many companies that I know of that thrive on an aging workforce. Therefore, an aging CT becomes less attractive to these companies.

Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident

I'm not fazed(sic) by the ills of various countries. It's irrelevant to this topic.

Although I get your clever play on words, I fail to see how your lack of interest toward the economic ills of various countries is the standard used to judge what is relevant to the discussion. I believe it was you who suggested that there was no upside in CT getting younger and that an older demographic would work fine. Your disinterest does not negate the fact that Japan has been used as a case study of what an aging population can do to economic health.

[Stratford, Ct. Resident]

Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident

Please list which towns/cities in CT receive the majority of their tax revenue from business entities.

Originally Posted by EHCT

I'll address this with request with some questions of my own.

I guess this means that you can't provide me with the data?

[westender]

I think many of us who enjoy CT during our working years realize that the tax burden (income + property + sales) is far too high for retirement. Especially since you can collect retirement income from any place on the planet, why live in a high cost-of-living place when it is not required for work? Lots of islands and other beautiful, tropical places are building large communities for expatriate Western retirees.

On the other hand, this may become a huge issue in the next 10 years. Some states may even begin to sanction retiree benefits to those who live out-of-state. From Connecticut's perspective, for example, why pay a state worker pension to a retiree who lives in Florida or Costa Rica? The money is not staying in Connecticut...

[Kristin85]

Retirement issues aren't as much of a concern for the future of Connecticut as the loss of young, educated professionals. (Let's be honest; most people who reside in CT are upper middle class or wealthy; they can pay CT's high taxes even after retiring.)

Stratford, Ct. Resident: Are you so blind as to think that an ever-aging population in Connecticut is a good thing? Don't think about the next 10 years. Think about 30 years from now. When most people with Bachelor's or Master's degrees flee the state for major US cities (better pay, more excitement) or states with better tax environments, what do you think will happen in CT? Large corporations sure won't be building new facilities here; there won't be the "skilled young" to work at them. Even UBS only relocated a major office to Stamford on the condition that most of its NY employees would relocate. There's NO way they would have relocated to Stamford and tried looking for all new employees in Connecticut; educated young candidates barely live here anymore.

Honestly, look at what happened to Maine-America's "oldest state" by demographics. All of the young people fled, industries shut down, and now the state is struggling with how to pay the pensions and benefits of the elderly because they don't have enough tax dollars coming in. No one should want to see that happen to Connecticut.

[EHCT]

Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident

I guess this means that you can't provide me with the data?

You are absolutely correct. In CT, 68% of municiple revenues are obtained via property taxes. Although it doesn't do much to change the basis of my point, I will grant you that I was wrong to suggest that business done in the area represented the bulk of municiple funding.

[Stratford, Ct. Resident]

Originally Posted by Kristin85

Stratford, Ct. Resident: Are you so blind as to think that an ever-aging population in Connecticut is a good thing? Don't think about the next 10 years. Think about 30 years from now. When most people with Bachelor's or Master's degrees flee the state for major US cities (better pay, more excitement) or states with better tax environments, what do you think will happen in CT?

No, i don't consider myself to be blind on the matter. I do realize that there is certainly a need to have young people in the state, however, it is an undeniable fact that educating the children that they bear has monumental costs. Does the "average" family in the state of CT with lets say 2kids in the school system pay enough property/STATE income/sales taxes combined to cover, or nearly cover, the cost of educating those 2 kids? PLEASE, look at the raw numbers honestly and objectively before you answer my question. Think about what a "typical" family pays for all of those taxes. It doesn't come close to covering the nut. Add in a 3rd kid, and tack on another ~10K. The numbers are scary when you really look at them.