[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

I'm sure that it's a very difficult job. It doesn't require any specialized training or skills to obtain the job. I wouldn't want to do it, and they deserve to be paid well. However, the pool of people who can do this job-- as opposed to the pool of people who can be a pharmacist or airline pilot-- is large. They don't need any training beyond high school, nor specialized experience. There are lots of "hard" jobs that don't pay nearly what these guys make...



Ok-- leaving pharmacists out-- they should make more than teachers or nurses? I'm not comparing it to anywhere but here, and these guys don't all live in midtown Manhattan. Their pay is out-of-whack. You are welcome to disagree...

There are limited resources that the railroad has... The more that is devoted to (over) paying workers, the less there is for maintenance and safety outside of payroll..

They don't take straight out of high school except for conductor or train cleaner.... Most Track workers have College or Trade School backgrounds. It takes about a years worth of classes to qualify these days thats just for basic. You also have welders , mechanics and Signal tech which are also part of Track crew those require 2-4 years of college these days. So your wrong once again....and its a grueling job...your out in all kinds of environments and weather conditions...factor in Speeding trains... Its the same with the Muckers and sand hogs who evacuate the tunnels and pipelines under cities.. A train operator and Airline pilot make about the same in the Northeast , and go through similar long extensive training... Teachers tend to get the shaft , but that wasn't always the case. Nurses after a few years can make anywhere from 80 to 110k depending on which hospital they work at. Most Railroad employees live up in Westchester and Fairfield counties at the MNRR ones...but there basic houses....not Mansions.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

They don't take straight out of high school except for conductor or train cleaner.... Most Track workers have College or Trade School backgrounds. It takes about a years worth of classes to qualify these days thats just for basic. You also have welders , mechanics and Signal tech which are also part of Track crew those require 2-4 years of college these days. So your wrong once again....and its a grueling job...your out in all kinds of environments and weather conditions...factor in Speeding trains... Its the same with the Muckers and sand hogs who evacuate the tunnels and pipelines under cities.. A train operator and Airline pilot make about the same in the Northeast , and go through similar long extensive training... Teachers tend to get the shaft , but that wasn't always the case. Nurses after a few years can make anywhere from 80 to 110k depending on which hospital they work at. Most Railroad employees live up in Westchester and Fairfield counties at the MNRR ones...but there basic houses....not Mansions.

Look, you'll obviously defend train workers till the death.

A couple of counter-points... I'm tired of debating this. If you think 150K is appropriate for a public employee in low-skill or semi-skilled labor, then we just disagree

- Welders , mechanics and signal techs are SKILLED labor and are not classified as track workers. I have called out conductors, engineers and track workers... Regardless of what crew they are on, they are classified and paid differently...

- There are lots of grueling jobs that work in all weather conditions that pay much, much less.

- Airline pilots in the Northeast? I have no idea where you are getting your numbers... Airline pilots would, by definition, scale nationally, and there are no regional differences in pay. Airline pilots start at as little as 22K. The average pay right now is about 70K. You need to have 1,200 hours pilot in command time before you can start earning that entry level 22K... and a four year degree. The training is not comparable. Airline pilots also work in the private sector.

-Please introduce me to the RN making 110K.

[Wilton2ParkAve]

It appears that fault rests completely with the engineer. Recorder shows the train attempted to round the section at 82mph despite a 30mph speed limit. The train had already made nine stops by that point with no reported brake issues. I pray an arrest warrant is being drafted as we speak.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Wilton2ParkAve

It appears that fault rests completely with the engineer. Recorder shows the train attempted to round the section at 82mph despite a 30mph speed limit. The train had already made nine stops by that point with no reported brake issues. I pray an arrest warrant is being drafted as we speak.

Very sad.

I can't imagine what would have been going on for the engineer not to notice he was going almost 3x the limit...

Can't chalk that up to texting...

[Lalalally]

Originally Posted by Wilton2ParkAve

It appears that fault rests completely with the engineer. Recorder shows the train attempted to round the section at 82mph despite a 30mph speed limit. The train had already made nine stops by that point with no reported brake issues. I pray an arrest warrant is being drafted as we speak.

I read this earlier. Unreal. 82 miles per hour seems awfully fast for even a straightaway. Anyone have any idea what normal top speed is?

[mikelizard860]

You could require a harvard phd to conduct and train and you could still have the same problem of a moment of not paying attention.(assuming that's what happened) There should be a safety mechanism that is available that automatically slows the train on a curve like that. Safety experts have been calling for it to be installed for years.

[Cambium]

Originally Posted by Wilton2ParkAve

It appears that fault rests completely with the engineer. Recorder shows the train attempted to round the section at 82mph despite a 30mph speed limit. The train had already made nine stops by that point with no reported brake issues. I pray an arrest warrant is being drafted as we speak.

Agree. Death row would be harsh to say but there's no words for this. We need to start eliminating idiocy in this world. Using brakes as an excuse? So did he report them bad when as was doing 40, 50,60,70 mph? At least say you fell asleep or something. He's done. And rest assure folks, there are more like these walking among us.

[AnonChick]

So really, the pay these people has absolutely no impact on anything, and has nothing to do with anything. And - the condition of the tracks has nothing to do with anything.

Anyone, no matter how much money they're earning, no matter how many letters to their college degree, no matter how expensive and perfect the facilities are where they work, can screw up and not do their job correctly.

This "user error" cost lives, and millions in repairs to the tracks it damaged, and millions in replacement cars, and millions in damages to the passengers who were injured/traumatized by the accident.

When a football star who makes millions every year fumbles, he can cost the entire team the game, and even the season.

When a teacher fails to teach his students, his students will have to pay for it in their struggle through graduation and beyond.

When a pharmacist screws up on a patient order, he could put his patient's life at risk.

When a janitor fails to clean the toilets properly, he could be causing virii to spread amongst the patrons of that bathroom.

User error is blind to finances, funding, infrastructure, payscale, education level.

This seems like it was another case of user error. The guy had no history of user error with the railroad. Past behavior predicts future behavior. There was no reason to believe this conductor would screw up this time around, if the press conference video is to be believed, because he hadn't ever been written up for any kind of rules violations in the past and he wasn't new to his job.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by AnonChick

So really, the pay these people has absolutely no impact on anything, and has nothing to do with anything. And - the condition of the tracks has nothing to do with anything.

Anyone, no matter how much money they're earning, no matter how many letters to their college degree, no matter how expensive and perfect the facilities are where they work, can screw up and not do their job correctly.

This "user error" cost lives, and millions in repairs to the tracks it damaged, and millions in replacement cars, and millions in damages to the passengers who were injured/traumatized by the accident.

When a football star who makes millions every year fumbles, he can cost the entire team the game, and even the season.

When a teacher fails to teach his students, his students will have to pay for it in their struggle through graduation and beyond.

When a pharmacist screws up on a patient order, he could put his patient's life at risk.

When a janitor fails to clean the toilets properly, he could be causing virii to spread amongst the patrons of that bathroom.

User error is blind to finances, funding, infrastructure, payscale, education level.

This seems like it was another case of user error. The guy had no history of user error with the railroad. Past behavior predicts future behavior. There was no reason to believe this conductor would screw up this time around, if the press conference video is to be believed, because he hadn't ever been written up for any kind of rules violations in the past and he wasn't new to his job.

If only there was some technology around that could prevent these moments of inattention from become tragic...

Positive train control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It takes budget to install these things. The more you spend on X the less you have to spend on Y... There's the relationship.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

If only there was some technology around that could prevent these moments of inattention from become tragic...

Positive train control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It takes budget to install these things. The more you spend on X the less you have to spend on Y... There's the relationship.

Its a mix bag , every Railroad that uses the MNRR tracks needs to upgrade to PTC. While the MNRR can easily upgrade , CSX , P&W , HCC will and have fought implementing PTC. So in this case its part money and part Railroad politics. A few weeks ago they finally threw out the old 1920s style regulations on Weight , and Track sharing in favor for the International regulations which have proven just as safe , if not safer then the American regulations. These new regulations will be bring down costs by half. Reducing the Salaries of employees to free up money , isn't going to really work. You need to stop CT and NY from taking billions for the MTA and other agencies. Closing that loophole would do so much for the agency and others...