[AMSS]

Originally Posted by Sigequinox

Gang members tend to not go to class. and while I'm no law enforcement expert, I would imagine their "business" is not conducted in the classroom either.They learn to add on the street yo, and algebra is for p**sies. Regardless, that crap don't "happen in the burbs". It happens in places like Bridgeport.

Sure hope your irrational fears don't rub off on your kids. Good Lord.

[Sigequinox]

Originally Posted by AMSS

Sure hope your irrational fears don't rub off on your kids. Good Lord.

Nice. Nothing like an ad hominem on my not yet born children to seal your argument about violence in city schools. Guess they didn't have a debate club at Waterbury HS.

[Lalalally]

What about Magnet schools in our inner cities, whose focus is not racial balance, but instead academic achievement? Only the best of the best get in, period. And sure, absolutely set aside more seats for the best and the brightest who live in the host city, and then draw in the smartest from the surrounding towns. Kind of like NYC does with their specialized schools - Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech, Townsend Harris, etc. -- students from all 5 boroughs can attend, IF they're smart enough.
Wouldn't that benefit both the smart kids in the inner cities, and whatever progressive families there are in the surrounding towns who are very interested in exposing their children to ethnic, cultural, and economic diversity. Win/win for two groups who basically want the same thing, no?

[dazzleman]

Magnet / charter schools are the best answer for kids trapped in failing schools in urban (or other) areas. Even if only a small percentage of those kids have parents who value education, they need an escape hatch from their default public schools.

Busing would be a disaster, and nobody will support regionalization of education because of the threat of busing. I would never tolerate busing for my own kids. Kids should go to their local schools unless the parents choose otherwise. It's amazing how little we seem to learn from experience. Busing has already been tried, and it failed miserably everywhere it was used. Not only did it not improve education, it didn't even bring integration. Any idea of wholesale busing should be out of our heads. Lack is integration is not the cause of the problem, but more the result of it.

[AMSS]

Originally Posted by Sigequinox

Nice. Nothing like an ad hominem on my not yet born children to seal your argument about violence in city schools. Guess they didn't have a debate club at Waterbury HS.

Didn't go to a Waterbury HS (btw, there is no "Waterbury High School")...and I'd look in the mirror regarding debating skills given the previous comment wouldn't fly in competition either.

Originally Posted by Lalalally

What about Magnet schools in our inner cities, whose focus is not racial balance, but instead academic achievement? Only the best of the best get in, period. And sure, absolutely set aside more seats for the best and the brightest who live in the host city, and then draw in the smartest from the surrounding towns. Kind of like NYC does with their specialized schools - Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech, Townsend Harris, etc. -- students from all 5 boroughs can attend, IF they're smart enough.
Wouldn't that benefit both the smart kids in the inner cities, and whatever progressive families there are in the surrounding towns who are very interested in exposing their children to ethnic, cultural, and economic diversity. Win/win for two groups who basically want the same thing, no?

That will never change though. The worst outcome of Sheff vs. O'Niell were just another "flight" in my opinion and did not touch on the real problem which is the community in which failing schools are. If you want to improve inner city "failing" schools, then your best bet is probably to work with the parents. When someone gives birth young and financially unstable, there will be stresses that wealthy and middle class parents won't have. I always wondered why we don't tie in parenting and nutrition/cooking classes and job training to welfare payments. I don't think it's a lot to ask in return and benefits everyone.

[Stratford, Ct. Resident]

Originally Posted by AMSS

If you want to improve inner city "failing" schools, then your best bet is probably to.................

Offer incentives(bribes) to caucasian families to move back to the cities. I know. I know. That's a horrible thing to say, i'm a very bad person, etc. It isn't "PC", but that's the brutal reality of the situation.

[mlassoff]

There are models of inner-city schools that work. Look at Headstart, the Harlem Children's Zoe and Geoffrey Canada... Look at Kipp Academy schools. It's about early intervention, significantly longer school days, increased expectations, smaller classes, technology, etc.

No this wouldn't solve all the problems-- there will continue to be students who are so far gone that they are incorrigible. However there very significant outcome improvements with the programs listed above. What's sad is there is no way these programs can be instituted or imitated-- because the existing educational structure (teacher's unions, top heavy administration, etc) won't allow it.

[laulob]

The magnet school option does exist in CT and I've looked at the scores. For most failing inner city schools scores hover around 30% proficiency (meaning about 30% of the students are on grade level). The good suburban schools are at 95-98%. Even the soso suburban schools have scores in the 70s and 80s. The magnet schools are slated to enroll 70% urban inner city students (usually from the city they are located in) and 30% from surrounding suburbs. Most of the magnet schools (and I'm most familiar with the New Haven system) score at about 60% proficiency. Much better than the urban schools but no where near even the mediocre suburban schools.

There was an interesting report but out by Yale about the New Haven magnet system. It essentially showed that because the scores were not significantly greater than the suburbs, the magnet schools had much fewer than the 30% suburban population. It also showed a correlation to the number of minorities in surrounding towns, and showed that the lower number of minorities in a town the higher the number of minority students choosing the magnet school over their own town's school.

It was very interesting. I will attempt to find it again and link.

[dazzleman]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

There are models of inner-city schools that work. Look at Headstart, the Harlem Children's Zoe and Geoffrey Canada... Look at Kipp Academy schools. It's about early intervention, significantly longer school days, increased expectations, smaller classes, technology, etc.

No this wouldn't solve all the problems-- there will continue to be students who are so far gone that they are incorrigible. However there very significant outcome improvements with the programs listed above. What's sad is there is no way these programs can be instituted or imitated-- because the existing educational structure (teacher's unions, top heavy administration, etc) won't allow it.

I completely agree.

I think schools ultimately reflect the quality of the community in which they're located and the parents/family structure that prevails in that community. Test scores are merely a reflection of these things, and you can't superimpose good schools on a community filled with broken homes and disinterested parents.

I also think there's a tipping point for any school at which the level of family dysfunction in the community is so overwhelming that a good education isn't possible in that school, even for kids who have better parents and family situations. That's where our urban schools are now.

The only real solution is an escape hatch for the students who have the potential and resources at home to do well. The unions are hell-bent on preventing this escape hatch, and they've bought a lot of the politicians. Plus political correctness precludes us from being honest about what is actually causing the problems. We can only say they're caused by poverty and racism, which really isn't the case. Poverty is more the result of the same problems that cause the bad schools than the cause itself, and continued focus on race only perpetuates the problem.

[AMSS]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

There are models of inner-city schools that work. Look at Headstart, the Harlem Children's Zoe and Geoffrey Canada... Look at Kipp Academy schools. It's about early intervention, significantly longer school days, increased expectations, smaller classes, technology, etc.

No this wouldn't solve all the problems-- there will continue to be students who are so far gone that they are incorrigible. However there very significant outcome improvements with the programs listed above. What's sad is there is no way these programs can be instituted or imitated-- because the existing educational structure (teacher's unions, top heavy administration, etc) won't allow it.

There are problems with this: One HCZ is not sustainable to every community in the country and two, like KIPP, it hasn't done any better than public schools and the methods are questionable. Geoffrey Canada threw out an entire grade that wasn't performing - which is unrealistic (nor allowed in public schools) - and KIPP is notorious for claiming 100% graduation rates but when you look at the last graduating class, the attrition rate over the entire four years of high school is around 50%. I wouldn't claim success if I achieved amazing test scores by throwing out the kids that struggled.

BTW, if you think teachers unions are the reasons for decreased expectations, than you need to do more research. Every strike against public schools (not being able to discipline, social promotion, cuts in Head Start, limited technology) has come at the hands of the legislature.

Also, as an involved parent, I see no reason for extended school days. Demanding that schools be responsible for parenting situations is what got inner city schools in trouble in the first place.