[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by Stylo

The problem with Danbury and Waterbury lines is they’re barely used and the costs to upgrade them to modern standards are huge. Shoreline East is also very little used. The subsidies on these lines per passenger are huge.

Anyone commuting to Norwalk and Stamford from northern FFC are overwhelmingly by car. Those that want lower cost living can get great train access from Bridgeport and eastward.

Are they barely used? I know a conductor who noted many, many people commute on the Waterbury line from Waterbury to Bridgeport and about 200,000 ride annually. While that’s nothing in comparison to NH line, that’s not insignificant given the small amount of stations on the line. He said they are mostly working class people who don’t have vehicles and can walk to their place of employment right from the Bridgeport station. Just because they may not be upper middle class Stamford or New York commuters doesn’t mean they should be ignored (not solely directed at your assessment, but overall that seems to be common thought).

I’m with Jay here when he says we need to focus on intrastate travel as opposed to solely NY commutes (that doesn’t mean we should ignore the need for faster rail service to the city). If that can be increased, you’d have a plethora of economic opportunities for current residents since we would see companies show interest in interior CT locations as opposed to just Stamford.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by JayCT

I disagree. You are looking at it from strictly a NYC commuter viewpoint so your bias is showing BIG TIME.

I am looking at supply/demand. Danbury & the Valley are not getting much traffic. I think each merits 2 am/2 pm trains on each, 1 before 6, 1 about 7am (original time leaving). Return in 430pm range, 530pm range.

I just queried the MTA line. 2 trains/hr in Milford mid-day is crazy when 1/2 the traffic went away. So I also want quantity of trains cut mid-day Milford-GCT.

Btw, I ride off and on weekends to attend Fordham games, so I would pay more in my scenario, also.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by Stylo

The problem with Danbury and Waterbury lines is they’re barely used and the costs to upgrade them to modern standards are huge. Shoreline East is also very little used. The subsidies on these lines per passenger are huge.

Anyone commuting to Norwalk and Stamford from northern FFC are overwhelmingly by car. Those that want lower cost living can get great train access from Bridgeport and eastward.

[Stylo]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

So I also want quantity of trains cut mid-day Milford-GCT.

Can't argue that. Focus on better rush hour service for remaining office workers.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

Are they barely used? I know a conductor who noted many, many people commute on the Waterbury line from Waterbury to Bridgeport and about 200,000 ride annually. While that’s nothing in comparison to NH line, that’s not insignificant given the small amount of stations on the line. He said they are mostly working class people who don’t have vehicles and can walk to their place of employment right from the Bridgeport station. Just because they may not be upper middle class Stamford or New York commuters doesn’t mean they should be ignored (not solely directed at your assessment, but overall that seems to be common thought).

I’m with Jay here when he says we need to focus on intrastate travel as opposed to solely NY commutes (that doesn’t mean we should ignore the need for faster rail service to the city). If that can be increased, you’d have a plethora of economic opportunities for current residents since we would see companies show interest in interior CT locations as opposed to just Stamford.

260 weekdays less ten holidays.

200k annually.

Why not condense the availability to 2am/2 pm trains, still means 1,000 trains running (250 days *4) and get it up to 200 on each train.

Everyone gets to work, and now fewer conductors and engineers required.

[Stylo]

I'm not necessarily condoning shutting down those lines. Just reducing schedules and not funneling too much money into upgrades. Fed money can be used to maintain them at an acceptable rate, plus enhance NH line tracks.

It was 200,000 a year before, wonder what it is now? NH line peaked at 39 million a year.

[SteveM85]

Originally Posted by JayCT

I disagree. You are looking at it from strictly a NYC commuter viewpoint so your bias is showing BIG TIME.

Growing the Danbury and Naugatuck line is more important than you think. It provides super pricey lower Fairfield County access to affordable housing which is desperately needed. If our state wants to build upon the already incredible base we have in Stamford and Norwalk, affordable housing will be imperative. The only way to go is toward Danbury and Waterbury.

Going to 90 minutes between off peak trains does not provide enough service to be convenient for riders. If you miss a train, waiting an hour or less is tolerable. Waiting more than that is definitely not.

Furthermore, why penalize weekend travelers? Completely cutting weekend subsidies will completely eliminate riders. No one is going to pay the kind of ticket price it would become. Remember those weekend riders are taxpayers too. Why should their tax dollars go to subsidizing your commute? It’s not fair. Jay

That's right. It's 2022, CT needs to expand everything. Rails, highways, and Tweed. Add lanes from NH to Greenwich on 15 and 95. Get all express trains back on schedule, not just from Greenwich. Increase speeds.
Reno Tweed and bring in more carriers. These are critical to CT's future.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by Stylo

I'm not necessarily condoning shutting down those lines. Just reducing schedules and not funneling too much money into upgrades. Fed money can be used to maintain them at an acceptable rate, plus enhance NH line tracks.

It was 200,000 a year before, wonder what it is now? NH line peaked at 39 million a year.

Agreed. I also am against deep sixing Danbury and Naugatuck 100%. Simply offer a rationale quantity of trains relative to ridership. Not the pie in the sky expectations of ridership. The reality of present ridership. Same with Shoreline East, and mid-day lines to/from NYC.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

I am looking at supply/demand. Danbury & the Valley are not getting much traffic. I think each merits 2 am/2 pm trains on each, 1 before 6, 1 about 7am (original time leaving). Return in 430pm range, 530pm range.

I just queried the MTA line. 2 trains/hr in Milford mid-day is crazy when 1/2 the traffic went away. So I also want quantity of trains cut mid-day Milford-GCT.

Btw, I ride off and on weekends to attend Fordham games, so I would pay more in my scenario, also.

Would you pay double what you are paying now??? I doubt it. And certainly a family with a bunch of kids heading into a game won’t. Not worth it.

What you also have to consider is where train sets will rest once they get to Grand Central. That’s why some trains come back. You need to balance the number of trips inbound with parking space under Park Avenue.

The problem with the Danbury and Waterbury lines is the old “chicken or egg” problem. Which should come first. Unfortunately with transportation you won’t get more riders unless the service is there. That’s why Lamont wants to invest in those lines. That’s how ridership increased on Shoreline East and how it will build on the Hartford line. Jay

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by JayCT

Would you pay double what you are paying now??? I doubt it. And certainly a family with a bunch of kids heading into a game won’t. Not worth it.

I would, but it would not double. The peak/off-peak gap Milford-GCT is about $7 each way, the $3.25 subsidy adds $3.25, so it would still come in about $50 round trip to GCT. Any NYC entertainment will cost far, far more than that.

Milford-Fordham peak vs non-peak gap is around $5, so with losing the subsidy, round trip is $16.50 more. No huge deal.

I do not expect bargains on entertainment. Those games families go, too, a decent ticket, mezzanine height, City Field, will cost them $80-$120 a seat, with no discounts based on age, btw. Yankee comes in at least 50% higher.