[synchem]

Originally Posted by Stepfordct

Unfortunately the bigger the safety cushion the more comfortable people tend to be.
Look at all the people who come to the USA from other countries.
Many of them know what it's like to be born into poverty.
They will take a menial job, work hard, live in poverty and move up the ladder. They come here starting from zero typically and succeed. It's a state of mind.
Rewarding people for bad choices just ensures more of the same.
Is it harsh maybe....but the safety net keeps increasing every year with no positive effect.

I totally get the dependency that happens. But everything is a bell curve right, there are people who are fine being dependent on the government and sometimes their situation is linked to the personal drive. If some people are just wired that way we can't realistically as a society just leave them out in the cold and ignored/shunned from society. I feel rising tide lifts all boats, and if some people need help based on their situation and the way their brain works so be it. It's better than a large portion of the population being out on the streets as that leads to IMO much worse problems (crime, disease, etc.)

Also I don't think we can compare those that come from poor countries and emigrate to the US to those that are born in poverty here. Obviously the ones that emigrate have a greater desire to better themselves by completely overhauling their life in a new country. That was how this country basically became what it is. The people that wanted better had the drive to do so even if it was starting from scratch. A lot of times there is some family that came over first who help out the new family members get started.

Whereas people born into poverty in this country I think actually have it harder. They are born most likely to parents that have been stuck in this way of life for generations without any real change. No one chooses to be born, let alone into those types of circumstances. So I don't see it as rewarding people for bad choices, most of them literally had no choice to their predicament. Giving people food is one of the best social nets there is.

Mark Zandi, of Moody's Economy.com, confirmed the economic boost in an independent study that found that every SNAP dollar spent generates $1.73 in real GDP increase. ... It is important to point out that SNAP benefits go to those who need them most.

Spending more money on the healthcare of poor individuals also boost GDP and lowers overall disease.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7237575/

[Stepfordct]

There is a huge difference in what we perceive as poverty.
My friend from Romania was amazed at all the trees we have here.
Why? Because back home he mentioned they would be cut down for heat and cooking.
Back as a kid in Ireland we would have paper bags neatly cut flat for writing paper for school work.

There was no safety net. You did what you had to too survive.
The family unit was strong.

People that are homeless here are typically drug users or mentally ill. That should be addressed.

We have a huge safety net system already. It doesn't seem to be working.

We have the world's best healthcare system.
We have a bad health insurance system which was made 10 times worse with Obamacare.

Anyone can walk into a hospital and get free healthcare if you are poor.

The problem with our ever increasing safety nets is too many have figured out how to be comfortable just by gaming them.
Oh you want to make it better. Awesome! It's like they just got a raise.
There is no desire to escape it because they are satisfied being right where they are.

They don't have to find trees to heat their homes.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

This should be of interest. The 91% was virtually never actually paid.


https://beinglibertarian.com/tax-rat...0the%20wealthy.

I know that which is why I said it in jest but my point is that the top 20% earners earned almost 89% of the total income yet don’t pay near that percentage back. And that was from data before they got the massive tax cuts that Trump gave them.

It’s kind of clear the rich in our country are not paying their fair share but hey if some day I become rich, I can join them in not paying my fair share. That’s all that matters. Jay

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by JayCT

I know that which is why I said it in jest but my point is that the top 20% earners earned almost 89% of the total income yet don’t pay near that percentage back. And that was from data before they got the massive tax cuts that Trump gave them.

It’s kind of clear the rich in our country are not paying their fair share but hey if some day I become rich, I can join them in not paying my fair share. That’s all that matters. Jay

25% paying 66% seems fine, by me. I actually favor an absolute flat tax. No deductions nor exemptions. No carried interest income. Income is income.

[MrGompers]

Originally Posted by synchem

I totally get the dependency that happens. But everything is a bell curve right, there are people who are fine being dependent on the government and sometimes their situation is linked to the personal drive. If some people are just wired that way we can't realistically as a society just leave them out in the cold and ignored/shunned from society. I feel rising tide lifts all boats, and if some people need help based on their situation and the way their brain works so be it. It's better than a large portion of the population being out on the streets as that leads to IMO much worse problems (crime, disease, etc.)

At the most basic level what we have is people who are against "Social safety nets" because some percentage are scamming the system. That percentage is most likely under 1%, but they don't see that the other 99% being helped are not scamming. No system is free of fraud.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by MrGompers

At the most basic level what we have is people who are against "Social safety nets" because some percentage are scamming the system. That percentage is most likely under 1%, but they don't see that the other 99% being helped are not scamming. No system is free of fraud.

It’s amazing people can say with a straight face that the percentage of people taking advantage of the system is less than 1%.

[JGBigGreen]

We have the best healthcare system by what metric? The Stepfordct Report?

Originally Posted by Stepfordct;

We have the world's best healthcare system.
We have a bad health insurance system which was made 10 times worse with Obamacare.

.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

It’s amazing people can say with a straight face that the percentage of people taking advantage of the system is less than 1%.

True. There is never an initiative, either, to reduce the scamming rate. If it were hitting the private sector, they would work on it all the time. Not just accept it as inevitable.

[Stepfordct]

Originally Posted by MrGompers

At the most basic level what we have is people who are against "Social safety nets" because some percentage are scamming the system. That percentage is most likely under 1%, but they don't see that the other 99% being helped are not scamming. No system is free of fraud.

No system is perfect....true. Fraud under 1%!? It's so so much higher......

[Stepfordct]

Originally Posted by JGBigGreen

We have the best healthcare system by what metric? The Stepfordct Report?

Where is it so much better?
Have you lived overseas? Have family overseas that give you first hand reports