[JViello]

Originally Posted by Hartford Medic

I didn't say the gang doesn't exist. What I said was that the assumption that this ordinance is going to bring immigrant gangs to this city in droves is maybe a little ridiculous. This ordinance alone does not preclude "reporting" and does not make Hartford a "sanctuary city."

It's not rediculous and it is a real threat. Sanctuary means "we won't report you". Guess what the "ordinance" says?

Originally Posted by Hartford Medic

The ordinance does not say that police cannot inquire about immigration status during the investigation of a crime. What it actually says is that police cannot detain or question people SOLELY on immigration status. Meaning that if someone breaks the law - fine - they are open to investigation. If they call in to report other crimes, or talk to the police as a witness, they can't be questioned about their own status. Doesn't that make sense? Right now we have illegal immigrants living in blighted housing, afraid to report code violations to authorities under threats that they me be deported because of it. The result? Unreported violations, unsafe housing, and residents afraid to talk to the police. Let's let these people report crimes. Let's let them be a part of the community in this respect. Let's "catch them" as illegal immigrants through some other means.

Two things.

1. If someone is pulled over and "not charged" the police should still check "status". I mean, come on are we playing games to the point to think that when we are pulled over the police do not run peoples names for warrants and such?

Are we so ignorant to the fact that even when police take names at domestic disputes etc that they run them for criminal checks?

Are we so dilusional that we don't think police investigating an accident don't take names and check for criminal warrants?

All those things happen. Being a "medic" you've probably seen it happen even in the hospitals. I've seen it happen for crying out loud.

So why, why can't police have free rein to check and see if someone is ILLEGALLY in the country?

2. What part of NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE do you not get? Be part of the community? Are you freakin crazy? They should be on a federal transport truck back to the border where they ILLEGALLY crossed.

Housing violations are just that. Housing violations. Let the housing authority handle it. If they are not doing their job, hold them accountable.

I'm not going to pretend that people sneaking into our country and thwarting our laws are not breaking the law. We need to be in control of who comes into our country. We have a RIGHT to control our borders. They do not have a RIGHT to come here against the law. Get in line like everyone else. Period. End of story.

[Hartford Medic]

Hard talk but simply stated we are not that tough on immigration. Never have been. This ordinance is a grain of sand amongst all else within this system that makes living here as an illegal immigrant possible.

New Haven issues illegal immigrants special ID cards so that they may obtain social services as normal citizens do. Things like THAT are what compromise a "sanctuary city," not this ordinance.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with you on a lot of points. I feel that illegal immigration is a problem, a drain on our resources and is currently very much improperly handled. However, I don't think that this ordinance is really that much of a change from the status-quo, I don't think hardcore gangs are going to start flooding the streets because of it, and honestly I don't think it is going to make too much of a difference as far as identifying illegal immigrants. Do you really think that IDENTIFYING these people is the actual problem? You think they're hard to find and we're handicapping the police? Please. Let's walk down park street together right now, I'll find you enough to fill your truck.

I think there are probably other aspects of this issue that people should probably focus their efforts on instead. That's just me though.

Sorry if I insulted or offended, I didn't mean it. ...It's a (semi) heated debate on an on-line forum, so please understand tone and intent may be sometimes misunderstood.

[joe143]

I just feel this ordinance invites more illegal immigrants. It pretty much says its ok to live in hartford if your illegal. Unfourtantly, and this isnt racism, illegal immigrants are a drain on our economy. They take advantage of our system. Im sorry, its not right and shouldnt be tolerated.

[Hartford Medic]

I know plenty of legal citizens who are as much, and probably more of a drain on our system. They too are taking advantage.

[vvolin]

While I agree that the measure would be unwise if taken, I also believe that it is more of a way to shake people's minds and get them to think. On the other hand, I am very concerned about some reactions on this thread, reactions which show how narrow minded some people are. I would really like to know how many of us can safely say they do not employ any illegal immigrant, whether it is directly or indirectly through the businesses we all use. Yes, there are criminals among the illegal immigrants, and so there are among all of us, Americans . But it is so hypocritical to ask for all illegal immigrants to be banned from this country.

[Lincolnian]

Originally Posted by vvolin

While I agree that the measure would be unwise if taken, I also believe that it is more of a way to shake people's minds and get them to think. On the other hand, I am very concerned about some reactions on this thread, reactions which show how narrow minded some people are. I would really like to know how many of us can safely say they do not employ any illegal immigrant, whether it is directly or indirectly through the businesses we all use. Yes, there are criminals among the illegal immigrants, and so there are among all of us, Americans . But it is so hypocritical to ask for all illegal immigrants to be banned from this country.

Employers and landlords should be held accountable for not doing their due diligence. Employers should be checking to ensure that the employee has a valid social security card and/or a green card. Landlords should have to check citizenship status prior to providing housing. Right now many are not allowed to ask citizenship status as it may be discriminatory. I personally would not rent any of my properties to anyone who does not provide me with a valid social security card and proof of id and sign and pay for a credit check. If they don't want to pay the $25 for the credit check then they've got something to hide and I don't want them in my rental unit.

I have seen landlords that rent to illegals and felons released from prison. They often go on a weekly rent that amounts to double or triple the market price. They are slumlords and buy the cheapest properties often with serious code violations and they fill them with illegals and felons. It is no surprise that the neighborhoods witness dramatic increases in crime, violence, and decay creating a mass exodus of decent families that live there.

With the sanctuary laws and other laws that prevent checking one's citizenship status, this is what you get.

How would you feel if all of a sudden a law was passed that made the sexual predator lists disappear? How would you feel if a bunch of pedophiles were allowed to live where they wanted without the knowledge of their neighbors?

[JViello]

Originally Posted by vvolin

While I agree that the measure would be unwise if taken, I also believe that it is more of a way to shake people's minds and get them to think. On the other hand, I am very concerned about some reactions on this thread, reactions which show how narrow minded some people are. I would really like to know how many of us can safely say they do not employ any illegal immigrant, whether it is directly or indirectly through the businesses we all use. Yes, there are criminals among the illegal immigrants, and so there are among all of us, Americans . But it is so hypocritical to ask for all illegal immigrants to be banned from this country.

Wow...you really don't get it do you?

Narrow minded? Hypocritical for "banning" illegal behavior? Please...It's about ILLEGAL activity and not respecting our national sovereignty and borders.

So, you think I can just "show up" in Italy (Your home country correct?) with no passport, no visa - nothing and just start living there with fake social paperwork and it would be "okay"?

Doesn't Italy have a big problem with Albanian's similar to ours? (At least in Tuscana anyway.)

Yes I'm sure I don't support illegal immigrants. Trust me. I pay a large price in my industry for not hiring them. I could - easily.

In your world it's open borders and anarchy. No thanks.

As a side note: Why didn't you move to Hartford and went to Glastonbury instead? Just curious.

[Ourdreamhouse]

Originally Posted by vvolin

Yes, there are criminals among the illegal immigrants, and so there are among all of us, Americans . But it is so hypocritical to ask for all illegal immigrants to be banned from this country.

As someone else said recently, "What part of 'ILLEGAL' don't you understand?" EVERY illegal immigrant is a criminal. That's the meaning of the word! And no, it's not hypocritical to ask for all illegal immigrants to be banned. And, IMHO, we shouldn't be "asking," we should be demanding -- that the laws be upheld, or else repealed. There is no other option.

[goldenband]

Originally Posted by Ourdreamhouse

As someone else said recently, "What part of 'ILLEGAL' don't you understand?" EVERY illegal immigrant is a criminal. That's the meaning of the word!

Given that illegal immigration is currently a civil infraction, that means that anyone who's ever gotten a speeding ticket -- or actually, anyone who's ever exceeded the speed limit, period -- is also a criminal.

I can't really get too worked up over the lawbreaking nature of illegal immigrants, since in many cases, if I were in their position, I'd probably do the same thing if I could. It's our job to enforce our borders, not theirs to stay out. If I were a member of (say) the indigenous peoples of Guatemala in the 1980s, I'd want to get me and my family out of Dodge as fast as possible, and to hell with the laws; I trust most of you would do the same if all hell broke loose here, and you needed to get to Canada, but couldn't do it legally.

Plus there's a fair bit of evidence (though it's admittedly not conclusive) that illegal immigrants are, once they enter the country, more inclined to obey the law than your average low-income American.

That doesn't mean I don't want the existing laws enforced, or don't think illegal immigration is a major problem; I do. For one thing, I think illegal immigration has been very damaging to many low-income black communities.

[Smallville]

Originally Posted by reason180

Who goes to a concert by a Mexican artist and gets upset to hear people speaking Spanish??????

You bought a ticket and then left at intermission!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know, right? Santana certainly isn't white lol.