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Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,148,847 times
Reputation: 3814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonGecko
Right. You - and I mean YOU personally - are just being disingenuous now.
The "yous" and "YOUR's" (your spelling and punctuation) were about what laws apply to whom. You stated quite clearly that these don't apply to you. I reiterate; they do.
Any redundancy is a result of folks who refuse to accept that there is no conflict here. Stating it "simplier" for you - you have the right to believe whatever you want. You have no right to enforce your beliefs on others in the public community.
Businesses - all businesses - are required to operate within the bounds of the law. The law states that one may not discriminate against a class of people, in this case gay people.
You may believe however you choose, but your religious beliefs don't give ANYONE a pass on having to obey civil laws.
The only clash here is the consistent refusal of people who are bigoted against gay people to understand that they are not allowed to enforce their opinions in the public arena.
"Simplier" enough for you?
YOU and I mean you, are just being outrageously specious now.
Where are ErnieG and the OP?
The OP makes threads and then abandons them to NeonGecko? Lol.
Show me where I said anything doesnt apply to me. Thanks.
So you continue to say. I am also right that you are no expert either, LOL!
I didnt see where she literally said Gay Marriage was an abomination. I did she where she told Rob that she couldnt do the flowers because of her personal beliefs regarding marriage.
Do you have a link to that which you have said? Or, is this merely another fine display of the content of your personal character?
Straw man arguments and ad hominem attacks shall avail ye not!
You do realize this whole thing is a done deal, right? Whether or not *I* am an expert is not at issue. It doesn't matter. Because people who are clearly experts already decided against this woman.
“Religious freedom is a fundamental part of America. But religious beliefs do not give any of us a right to ignore the law or to harm others because of who they are. When gay people go to a business, they should be treated like anyone else and not be discriminated against,” said Sarah Dunne, ACLU of Washington Legal Director.
Quote:
"Confirming the enactment of same-sex marriage, there would eventually be a direct and insoluble conflict between Stutzman's religiously motivated conduct and the laws of the state of Washington," Benton County Superior Court Judge Alexander Ekstrom said in his 60-page opinion.
"For over 135 years, the Supreme Court of the United States has held that laws may prohibit religiously motivated action, as opposed to belief," Ekstrom added, according to a copy of the document published online by the Los Angeles Times.
Quote:
“Religious motivation does not excuse compliance with the law,” the judge concluded. “In trade and commerce, and more particularly when seeking to prevent discrimination in public accommodations, the courts have confirmed the power of the legislative branch to prohibit conduct it deems discriminatory, even where the motivation for that conduct is grounded in religious belief.”
I don't see anywhere where I said that she said that gay marriage is an abomination.
What I ACTUALLY said is that she has a belief that gay marriage is an abomination. This is based on the fact that according to Baptist dogma, homosexuality is an Abomination. She is a Baptist. And she has stated that she wouldn't provide flowers because of her religious beliefs.
So it is both logical and reasonable to come to the conclusion that she believes homosexuality is an Abomination.
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,148,847 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonGecko
Straw man arguments and ad hominem attacks shall avail ye not!
You do realize this whole thing is a done deal, right? Whether or not *I* am an expert is not at issue. It doesn't matter. Because people who are clearly experts already decided against this woman.
I don't see anywhere where I said that she said that gay marriage is an abomination.
What I ACTUALLY said is that she has a belief that gay marriage is an abomination. This is based on the fact that according to Baptist dogma, homosexuality is an Abomination. She is a Baptist. And she has stated that she wouldn't provide flowers because of her religious beliefs.
So it is both logical and reasonable to come to the conclusion that she believes homosexuality is an Abomination.
If not - then what is she so upset about?
She's not upset. She is not the one sueing anybody yet, is she? No.
I see you have no quote regarding me. Thanks for clearing that up, buddy.
Originally Posted by NeonGecko You're right about one thing - you are no legal expert, LOL!
There is no test for discrimination that involves whether or not anything was ultimately prevented. The woman sells flowers. She sells flowers for weddings. She sold flowers to these particular people in the past for other events. She REFUSED to sell flowers for their wedding, expressly stating the refusal being based on her belief that being gay is an Abomination.
Discrimination.
Okay, we need to explain religous beliefs-
Any relgion has differing beliefs based on a sect or congregation.
Let's make her Jewish -
There are Liberal Jews, Conservative Jews, Conserv-odox Jews, Orthodox Jews, and even Jews for Jesus. There may be more types of Jews, with differing customs and beliefs, but they are all Jewish, nonetheless.
Last edited by ConeyGirl52; 04-04-2015 at 10:02 AM..
YOU and I mean you, are just being outrageously specious now.
Where are ErnieG and the OP?
The OP makes threads and then abandons them to NeonGecko? Lol.
Show me where I said anything doesnt apply to me. Thanks.
We wouldnt have lawsuits if there was no issue.
I already showed you, and anyone can go back into the thread and see where you said it. It is here
I frankly don't care where ErnieG and the OP are. I didn't answer that question, don't care about the answer to that question, and I am baffled by the idea that you think I should have an answer to that question.
I didn't say, btw, that there was no issue. I have said there is no doubt of the result, and I have said that there is no conflict here between the florist's right to religious freedom and her duty and responsibility to obey the laws of the land. Not the same thing as saying there is "no issue", LOL!
You consistently make up things no one ever said and deny things you have actually said.
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,148,847 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonGecko
I already showed you, and anyone can go back into the thread and see where you said it. It is here
I frankly don't care where ErnieG and the OP are. I didn't answer that question, don't care about the answer to that question, and I am baffled by the idea that you think I should have an answer to that question.
I didn't say, btw, that there was no issue. I have said there is no doubt of the result, and I have said that there is no conflict here between the florist's right to religious freedom and her duty and responsibility to obey the laws of the land. Not the same thing as saying there is "no issue", LOL!
You consistently make up things no one ever said and deny things you have actually said.
Things that make you go, hmmmmm.... LOL!
Yes, like your cognative process....HMMMMMMM!
I spoke about your YOUs and YOURs not applying to me no matter how much you want to slap them on me.
You still have not shown where I said any LAW does not apply to me.
She's not upset. She is not the one sueing anybody yet, is she? No.
I see you have no quote regarding me. Thanks for clearing that up, buddy.
She's not? This doesn't sound upset to you?
Quote:
On Friday, Stutzman told Ferguson in a letter released through her attorneys that the state’s settlement offer of a $2,000 penalty, a $1 payment for court and legal fees, and an agreement “not to discriminate in the future,” was akin to Judas’s betrayal of Jesus in the Bible. “You are asking me to walk in the way of a well-known betrayer, one who sold something of infinite worth for 30 pieces of silver,” she wrote, adding, “that is something I will not do.”
She IS "suing" - has clearly stated that she intends to appeal. She is upset.
If it didn't upset her to supply wedding flowers, then why did she refuse to do it? That's a rhetorical question. Whether or not she is upset by supplying wedding flowers for a gay wedding is not at issue. It is clearly the case.
You're just nitpicking now, because you have nothing of substance to offer.
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,148,847 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonGecko
She's not? This doesn't sound upset to you?
She IS "suing" - has clearly stated that she intends to appeal. She is upset.
If it didn't upset her to supply wedding flowers, then why did she refuse to do it? That's a rhetorical question. Whether or not she is upset by supplying wedding flowers for a gay wedding is not at issue. It is clearly the case.
You're just nitpicking now, because you have nothing of substance to offer.
Where is she suing then, and who? Surely there would be an article to support this wild claim.
An appeal is not the initiating of an action, but a response to the outcome of one brought against her. Everyone has a right to appeal - all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court. You cant say the initial action is fine, but any reply to it is specious, can you?
Im sure NeonGecko could, lol. You are allowed to feel I am nitpicking if you like. I have no control over how you choose to feel.
She doesnt have to get emmotional and crazy to follow her beliefs, neither do I or you.
Last edited by ConeyGirl52; 04-04-2015 at 10:52 AM..
Reason: spelling
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