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So now you admit there is no known link between mercury in vaccines and any known disease. Your own link says so, right?
The critical thinking skills...
The article opened with "Mercury in all forms is poisonous" but this paragraph contradicted the whole article. I pointed it out to show the "religious nutjob" aspect of vaccine safety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
"Neurological problems" is a euphemism for autism, and every person reading this thread knows it.
I was not using a euphemism. If you want to use it as a euphemism then you can. I was referring to everything from convulsions to CNS demyelination and everything in that category of disorders. I would rather you not put words in my mouth (or rather, fingers). If I mean autism, I will type that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
So now it is not that ethylmercury is not excreted, it is that ALL mercury is not excreted. Before you said it could not be excreted at all. Shifting the goalposts, eh?
If "Mercury is poisonous. Period", what do we do about all the mercury we eat, drink, and inhale every day? Do you not see how ridiculous "Mercury is poisonous. Period." is?
All the EPA said is that mercury in organic forms is poisonous. ethyl mercury is a thimerosal metabolite. Hmmm...
"The initial absorption rate and tissue distribution of mercury was similar in both exposed groups. However, total mercury progressively accumulated in the blood of methylmercury-exposed monkeys and remained detectable 28 days after the last dose. Among thimerosal-exposed monkeys, total mercury in blood declined rapidly between doses, and the researchers estimated clearance to be 5.4-fold higher than in the methylmercury group. In the thimerosal group, the half-life of total mercury in blood was 6.9 days, compared to 19.1 days for the methylmercury group.
Brain concentrations of total mercury were approximately 3–4 times lower in the thimerosal group than in the methylmercury group, and total mercury cleared more rapidly in the thimerosal group (with a half-life of 24.2 days versus 59.5 days). However, the proportion of inorganic mercury in the brain was much higher in the thimerosal group (21–86% of total mercury) compared to the methylmercury group (6–10%). Brain concentrations of inorganic mercury were approximately twice as high in the thimerosal group compared to the methylmercury group. Inorganic mercury remains in the brain much longer than organic mercury, with an estimated half-life of more than a year. It’s not currently known whether inorganic mercury presents any risk to the developing brain." Thimerosal and Animal Brains: New Data for Assessing Human Ethylmercury Risk
The point is that more mercury reaches the brain with thimerosal. Even trace amounts are not acceptable and it was appropriately removed from vaccines (except in "trace" amounts).
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Due to the decision to remove thimerosal from vaccines, children's vaccines are now available that are free of mercury. There were in the past some that contained trace amounts. That is no longer true.
See Table 1. Note that it makes a definite distinction between trace of mercury and mercury free:
And again... trace amounts are still trace amounts. Better than for the first 30 years of pumping poison into our kids. If the FDA and CDC knew that mercury is poisonous.. does it make sense that we can trust them about the other ingredients? It's not like it is just the virus/toxin that is in the vaccine. The synergistic effect of these things has NEVER been studied.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Hepatitis B vaccine now has no mercury in it, not even a trace.
but for 30 years it did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Fungicide treated grains were never intended for human consumption, only for planting. People were poisoned when they accidentally used them for food. That was due to the large dose such exposures represented. To prevent such exposures such fungicides are no longer used.
But why bother changing them if it wasn't a problem and if it wasn't poisonous? You are slightly wishy-washy here. You say thimerosal is not harmful but we see that in the US (and most developed countries), as many exposures to all kinds of mercury are being eliminated. Why? CUZ IT'S POISONOUS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
And? What big new revelation is that? We now know there was no need to remove thimerosal from vaccines.
Ummm... we know what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
That is strange, because methyl mercury and ethyl mercury are not synonymous. If they were, we would only be talking about one substance, not two.
They are both organic compounds and gov't uses the toxicity levels of methyl to determine ethyl.. They consider them synonymous I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
There is no "poison" in hepatitis B vaccine. The current vaccine is available with no mercury in it for those who still believe the anti-vaccine propaganda.
So you DO agree that mercury in vaccines is poisonous?
So Hep B vaccine is perfectly safe (I guess I will take your word since we have no way of knowing what the actual ingredients are). Granted, the likelihood of getting Hep B as an infant is in infinitesimally small as it is for a normal adult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
I am confident that thimerosal was never a danger. I would not hesitate to use a vaccine containing it for myself.
Does it not bother you that you insist any exposure to mercury is dangerous when every person on the planet is exposed to it every nanosecond of every day?
You already admitted that the poison (thimerosal) was removed. Hep B contains no poison!
We are exposed to mercury enough... why add to it by injecting it? They made the right decision by removing it from vaccines and other things. Why did it take a threat from pediatric doctors and groups to get that done?
You can inject yourself with all the thimerosal you want. No one is stopping you.
My point was that the recommendations in the editorial have been implemented since the editorial was published.
In the real world, doctors tend not to use drugs that do not work or cause side effects. Patients will not take drugs that cause side effects that they deem unacceptable.
The benefits of vaccines are undeniable. The risks are minuscule and mandates are justified precisely because the risks are so tiny and a small misinformed minority of people are threatening herd immunity by not vaccinating. It's more dangerous to go swimming than to take a vaccine, but I can guarantee you that there are probably children of anti-vax families in swimming pools, lakes, and oceans this very minute.
Like anything in life, implemented does not = being followed. We have lots of laws/rules in society and industry that are "implemented" but are not followed. You can think of lots of examples as can I without even trying. Though it's your right to live in a textbook black and white world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
In the real world, doctors tend not to use drugs that do not work or cause side effects. Patients will not take drugs that cause side effects that they deem unacceptable.
Thanks for the humor and an insight into your "real world". Let's talk real world. I'd love for you to talk to my mother-in-law who went completely deaf a few years ago after using a prescription drug for an unrelated medical issue(not an ear problem). And she took it as prescribed by her doctor. She now has a cochlear implant. One of those pesky "side effects" on the label of course that never/ever happen. At least in my mother-in-laws case, she made the decision on her own to take the drug, based on her doctors recommendation of course, and wasn't forced by a mandate to do so with strings attached(ie CA law, one can't attend public school).
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
The benefits of vaccines are undeniable. The risks are minuscule and mandates are justified precisely because the risks are so tiny and a small misinformed minority of people are threatening herd immunity by not vaccinating. It's more dangerous to go swimming than to take a vaccine, but I can guarantee you that there are probably children of anti-vax families in swimming pools, lakes, and oceans this very minute.
Let me try.....those not vaccinating against the flu are threatening herd immunity/the lives of others by not vaccinating.
btw, flu is usually in the top 10 causes of death in the US. #8 in this top 10. If not in the top 10, it's up there. I would think to the pro vaccine folks that it's odd/unacceptable that flu vaccines didn't find it's way into the CA law. Even though the flu strains are guessed upon every year, even if a few thousand lives are saved, what's up with these decisions that are suppose to be based on protecting the public health, the herd immunity thing, and science of course?
Such is life. Back to choice, with no strings attached(ie not being able to attend public school with no vaccine) is the answer for some of us.
And I think the odds favor at least some choice will be allowed and that's when this issue gets to the CA polls in 2016, where it belongs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
How do we know you're not benefiting financially from your opposition? Plenty are!
Same way we know you are/aren't benefiting on your stance.
You know I'm starting to hope that California does put a referendum on the ballot concerning this vaccine law.
If this does make it onto the ballot anti-vaccination groups are going to learn firsthand that the public overwhelming rejects their views. They will get kicked in the teeth again.
...snip...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
Maybe you just have fun kicking people in the teeth. But it won't make them ignore all the injuries and want answers.
I don't know anyone who isn't surprised today that they can't keep popping Advil and Motrin without serious side effects. Surprising you is fine with me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
I still don't see the " kick in the teeth". " Inconvenient Truth" is not.
I bolded it for you the first time but apparently it wasn't enough so this time I snipped the quote so you can see what I bolded.
Like anything in life, implemented does not = being followed. We have lots of laws/rules in society and industry that are "implemented" but are not followed. You can think of lots of examples as can I without even trying. Though it's your right to live in a textbook black and white world.
Thank for the humor and an insight into your "real world". Let's talk real world. I'd love for you to talk to my mother-in-law who went completely deaf a few years ago after using a prescription drug for an unrelated medical issue. And she took it as prescribed by her doctor. She now has a cochlear implant. One of those pesky "side effects" on the label of course that never/ever happen. At least in my mother-in-laws case, she made the decision on her own to take the drug, based on her doctors recommendation of course, and wasn't forced by a mandate to do so with strings attached(ie CA law, one can't attend public school).
Let me try.....those not vaccinating again the flu are threatening herd immunity/the lives of others by not vaccinating.
btw, flu is usually in the top 10 causes of death in the US. #8 in this top 10. I would think to the pro vaccine folks that it's odd/unacceptable that flu vaccines didn't find it's way into the CA law. Even though the flu strains are guessed upon every year, even if a few thousand lives are saved, what's up with these decisions that are suppose to be based on protecting the public health, the herd immunity thing, and science of course?
Such is life. Back to choice, with no strings attached(ie not being able to attend public school with no vaccine) is the answer for some of us.
And I think the odds favor at least some choice will be allowed and that's when this issue gets to the CA polls in 2016, where it belongs.
Same way we know you are/aren't.
Yes... My FIL and my nephew were both treated with steroids, for God only knows what reason, and both died with lung complications. My nephew because brain edema and my FIL was taking the prescription for 20 years without reason. Once he stopped taking it, he lost so much weight that the lung cancer he was battling.. won.
Doctors are not infallible. Medicine is not infallible. The way vaccines are proposed as infallible is a clue as to why they really are harmful.
I predict the CA bill will be retracted. CA residents don't even know if homeschooling is under the requirements because of the way the homeschool law is worded.
Now in WA, we have less strict homeschooling laws so homeschoolers would be clearly exempt from any mandate.
So if, in CA, the law applies to even homeschooling.. then that is forced vaccination. All kids must be vaccinated.
In which case, I agree with Jo... Try strapping my kids down (if I had ones that qualified) to give them shots. That is unlawful restraint. A felony.
I don't think people realize what a slippery slope this is. Do we also agree with China's baby limit law?
" 'The big take home message for parents is that this is a reassuring study that supports what we already knew, that the HPV vaccine is a very safe vaccine,' said Michelle Berlin, M.D., the co-director of the Oregon Health and Science University Center for Women’s Health. 'The most common side effects that we see are soreness at the injection site and that some children faint when they get the shot, but they do that with any other shot in adolescence too.' ”
Yes... My FIL and my nephew were both treated with steroids, for God only knows what reason, and both died with lung complications. My nephew because brain edema and my FIL was taking the prescription for 20 years without reason. Once he stopped taking it, he lost so much weight that the lung cancer he was battling.. won.
Doctors are not infallible. Medicine is not infallible. The way vaccines are proposed as infallible is a clue as to why they really are harmful.
I predict the CA bill will be retracted. CA residents don't even know if homeschooling is under the requirements because of the way the homeschool law is worded.
Now in WA, we have less strict homeschooling laws so homeschoolers would be clearly exempt from any mandate.
So if, in CA, the law applies to even homeschooling.. then that is forced vaccination. All kids must be vaccinated.
In which case, I agree with Jo... Try strapping my kids down (if I had ones that qualified) to give them shots. That is unlawful restraint. A felony.
I don't think people realize what a slippery slope this is. Do we also agree with China's baby limit law?
Excellent points. And especially about medicine and those that practice are seen as "infallible" to some. Medicine is indeed an art. And many people here that shout "science!" ignore that aspect as if everything we know now in medicine, or life for that matter, is not subject to change/revision. The truth is the "book" on the art of medicine is constantly being rewritten. Think of the things that were the "undisputed science" for decades and then.....ooops....wrong. Sometimes a little off. Sometimes a 180 degrees off. Remember ulcers and the cause and cure and the 180 degree turn on that one? And as I recall how the person who suggested what ulcers are caused by/how they are treated was laughed at by many in the "science" world.....how dare he propose something so off the wall! What was seen as "right" is now "wrong". And even what is "scientifically right" is not right for everyone as the body and how things react in the body is infinitely complex. And it doesn't all fit neatly on a 1-3 page side effect sheet in my view just based on common sense of the complexity of it all. And then take into the words of what a group like JAMA has turned up and that throws in even more questions in the view of many.
I think for some, it gives them a sense of comfort to think they know the answer to everything, a sense of control and order in their life I would guess also. And that's fine. But I and many others don't think things are that simple in the complexity of biology, based on science, especially given how really little we know about the body. But some seem to like to extrapolate their belief to everyone else as that's what all should believe. That's not so fine in my view. That's my hangup in all of this. You make your decision on vaccines and I'll make mine, or anything I put/don't put in my body, with no strings attached.
If I'm bleeding to death/cut up on the side of road, get me to that hospital and work all the science in the world on me that we know. I'm not anti-medical in any sense. If I have a life threatening infection? Sure, an antibiotic might be my best friend. But that doesn't mean in my view that we all take it blindly, one size fits all for everyone, and impose that view on everyone or else you can't do via mandates(ie can't attend public school).
" 'The big take home message for parents is that this is a reassuring study that supports what we already knew, that the HPV vaccine is a very safe vaccine,' said Michelle Berlin, M.D., the co-director of the Oregon Health and Science University Center for Women’s Health. 'The most common side effects that we see are soreness at the injection site and that some children faint when they get the shot, but they do that with any other shot in adolescence too.' ”
" 'In the 8 years of post-licensure vaccine safety monitoring and evaluation conducted following the initial licensure of HPV4 in the U.S., no serious safety concerns have been identified in any study conducted worldwide,' the researchers found. "
"The researchers compared how many cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome, blood clots, stroke, appendicitis, allergic reactions, seizures and fainting occurred to those who received the vaccine to the number of these cases in those who never received the vaccine. The VSD studies for the HPV vaccine included than 600,000 doses of the vaccine. The only condition that appeared more often among those receiving the vaccine was blood clots, but close examination of those cases showed that all the girls with blood clots had other risk factors that increased their likelihood of a blood clot – using birth control pills, smoking, obesity, a long-term hospitalization or an underlying blood clotting disorder."
"The researchers also reviewed the three studies of HPV safety conducted in Denmark and Sweden. One of these, involving nearly 1 million girls, looked for 53 different conditions, including blood clots and autoimmune and neurological disorders, and found no link between the vaccine and serious conditions. Another Danish study of more than 1.6 million girls and women similarly found no risk for blood clots, and the third, involving nearly 4 million females, found no link between the HPV vaccine and multiple sclerosis or any similar disease."
"Finally, several large studies involving the patient population of Kaiser Permanente Southern California looked for possible links between the HPV vaccine and 50 different conditions, including multiple nervous system and autoimmune disorders. Again, no dice."
"The European Medicines Agency announced Monday that it has launched a safety review of the three vaccines for human papillomavirus (HPV) after receiving reports of serious adverse reactions in some young women.
EMA officials said the incidents were rare, but that they were "concerned" by the severity of two types of conditions that had come to their attention. The first is known as complex regional pain syndrome or CRPS and is a chronic pain condition affecting the limbs. The second one, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome or POTS, occurs when the heart rate jumps abnormally when sitting or standing. That can lead to dizziness, fainting, headache, chest pain and weakness."
The EMA, which is similar to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration but is not a regulatory agency but one focused on science and that makes recommendations to the European Commission, said that the review would involve Gardasil/Silgard, Gardasil 9, and Cervarix.
" 'The big take home message for parents is that this is a reassuring study that supports what we already knew, that the HPV vaccine is a very safe vaccine,' said Michelle Berlin, M.D., the co-director of the Oregon Health and Science University Center for Women’s Health. 'The most common side effects that we see are soreness at the injection site and that some children faint when they get the shot, but they do that with any other shot in adolescence too.' ”
" 'In the 8 years of post-licensure vaccine safety monitoring and evaluation conducted following the initial licensure of HPV4 in the U.S., no serious safety concerns have been identified in any study conducted worldwide,' the researchers found. "
"The researchers compared how many cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome, blood clots, stroke, appendicitis, allergic reactions, seizures and fainting occurred to those who received the vaccine to the number of these cases in those who never received the vaccine. The VSD studies for the HPV vaccine included than 600,000 doses of the vaccine. The only condition that appeared more often among those receiving the vaccine was blood clots, but close examination of those cases showed that all the girls with blood clots had other risk factors that increased their likelihood of a blood clot – using birth control pills, smoking, obesity, a long-term hospitalization or an underlying blood clotting disorder."
"The researchers also reviewed the three studies of HPV safety conducted in Denmark and Sweden. One of these, involving nearly 1 million girls, looked for 53 different conditions, including blood clots and autoimmune and neurological disorders, and found no link between the vaccine and serious conditions. Another Danish study of more than 1.6 million girls and women similarly found no risk for blood clots, and the third, involving nearly 4 million females, found no link between the HPV vaccine and multiple sclerosis or any similar disease."
"Finally, several large studies involving the patient population of Kaiser Permanente Southern California looked for possible links between the HPV vaccine and 50 different conditions, including multiple nervous system and autoimmune disorders. Again, no dice."
However, according to the CDC..."Cervical cancer: More than 11,000 women in the United States get cervical cancer each year."
11,000 out of 319 million? Yet the CDC also says that 79 million people have HPV at any given time. The CDC says: "HPV is so common that nearly all sexually active men and women get it at some point in their lives." STD Facts - Human papillomavirus (HPV)
However, there are around 100 or 150 types of HPV (depending on the source)... but the vaccine protects against 2 to 4 types (supposedly those which cause cancer).
From the insert: "Not all vulvar, vaginal, and anal cancers are caused by HPV, and GARDASIL protects only against those vulvar, vaginal, and anal cancers caused by HPV 16 and 18. (1.3)"
So let's inject this in every girl and boy when only 11,000 get hpv related cancers... That makes perfect sense. And yet we are (flu) guessing at which strain causes cancer. Out of 150 (or 100 if you choose your source) the vaccine is against just 2 (or 4 depending on the manufacturer)?
Gardasil contains The ingredients are proteins of HPV Types 6, 11, 16, and 18, amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate, yeast protein, sodium chloride, L-histidine, polysorbate 80, sodium borate, and water for injection.
You don't understand, when someone with an obsession has no real ground to stand on, they start grasping at straws. Their thinking is that if they keep grabbing at one straw and then another and another and another, just maybe they'll find a refuge for their obsession.
You'd have to read and follow through the posts to understand the sequence of events. Or you could just spin it the way you want, into a new insult with your friend. Which is just telling about how serious you take this issue. IMO.
You don't have to waste your time on here if you don't care, unless it's your job.
I bolded it for you the first time but apparently it wasn't enough so this time I snipped the quote so you can see what I bolded.
G
Get it now?
I'm glad it was that important to you to repost. Thank you so much! That still doesn't mean markg is going to do the kicking. I believe he's referring to the electorate.
Last edited by Marka; 07-20-2015 at 02:29 AM..
Reason: orphaned
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At least in my mother-in-laws case, she made the decision on her own to take the drug, based on her doctors recommendation of course, and wasn't forced by a mandate to do so with strings attached(ie CA law, one can't attend public school).
Update on Gardasil
, unless it's your job.