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No, not for government tampering with religious institutions.
Anyway, I'm sure that the "database of all Muslims" is already there, even though it probably isn't called that or referred to by similar nomenclature. But the data is probably already mined and analyzed.
The government shutting down any house of worship would be a flagrant violation of the Constitution.
And for those who also fear the Qu'ran, are you aware that Thomas Jefferson owned one (which today is housed in the Library of Congress)? Our founding fathers Jefferson, Madison, and Adams were quite aware of Muslims when they were forming the young nation that was to become the nation of quivering cowards we seem to have become. Jefferson's interest with Islam grew when he was America's ambassador to France.
The Founders were joined in their desire to codify religious liberty in the grand experiment by Americans whose names aren't as well know. An example is John Leland, an early leader of American Baptists in Massachusetts. He agreed with Jefferson on the question of Muslims becoming part of America. He had personal experience of Baptists facing discrimination and even denunciation from more established sects of Protestant Christianity, much as Roman Catholics were also often belittled by more mainstream religions, even in my lifetime.
In an a review of the excellent book Thomas Jefferson's Qu'ran by Denise A. Spellberg, R.B. Bernstein (author of The Education of John Adams) writes that taking his personal experience to heart, John "Leland opposed discrimination against any faith not part of the favored range of Protestant sects and denominations – including Muslims."
I would guess not if a house of worship were used for illegal activity that violated the rule of law and the well being/safety of the public.
As for the flagrant violation of the Constitution, that unfortunately seems to be a common practice these days among some politicians. Sadly. Though sometimes we have courts that keep things in check.
Nobody has to be “tricked”. One reason the call to arms has been so effective is that there are specific, nonnegotiable passages in the Koran asking Muslims to do all sort of things on their own, many of them violent. No trick required. Look at this:
"Among the most important religious obligations is enjoining good and forbidding evil. Allah the Exalted states in the Noble Quran:
“There has to be a nation among you summoning to the good, bidding what is right, and forbidding what is wrong, it is they who are the felicitous” (Ale Imran:104).
This is a can of worms. Anybody can wake up in the morning and go about “forbidding” what is wrong. People have been killed over this. In the hands of a capable orator, he can whip up people to commit all sorts of atrocities.
Islam is not a Qur'an only religion.While the Qur'an teaches the reasons for Islam it has very little teaching as to how to practice Islam
Although in English the Qur'an looks like a bunch of commands it is not, it is 114 separate books consisting of 38 messages each related in 3 different perspectives, but all leading to one basic Message that being:
"There is only one God(swt) he has no partners, equals or progeny and only he is to be worshiped"
The entire Qur'an can be Summarized in 2 Surat Al-Fatihah and Al-Ikhlaas.
Quote:
1. Surah Al-Fatihah
In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful
1. In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).
6. Guide us to the Straight Way
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger , nor of those who went astray
112. Surah Al-Ikhlaas or At-Tauhid (The Purity)
In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, Most Merciful
1. Say (O Muhammad ()): "He is Allah, (the) One.
2. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).
3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;
4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."
If one reads the Qur'an relating it all to those 2 surah it becomes evident the alleged violent verses actually do not promote violence.
In Imran 104 one needs to reed at least the 4 ayyats before and the 4 after to grasp what is being spoken of. Also helps to read several different translation if you do not read Qur'anic Arabic with Tajweed.
To understand as how a Muslim would hear it recited one needs ot do away with the line numbers and read it as a single thought. the Qur'an is inteneded to be heard not read. specifically heard in Arabic by someone who speaks with the Tajweed pronunciation.
Quote:
Say: O People of the Scripture! Why drive ye back believers from the way of Allah, seeking to make it crooked, when ye are witnesses (to Allah's guidance)? Allah is not unaware of what ye do. -
O ye who believe! If ye obey a party of those who have received the Scripture they will make you disbelievers after your belief.
How can ye disbelieve, when Allah's revelations are recited unto you, and His messenger is in your midst? He who holdeth fast to Allah, he indeed is guided unto a right path. -
O ye who believe! Observe your duty to Allah with right observance, and die not save as those who have surrendered (unto Him); -
And hold fast, all of you together, to the cable of Allah, and do not separate. And remember Allah's favor unto you: how ye were enemies and He made friendship between your hearts so that ye became as brothers by His grace; and (how) ye were upon the brink of an abyss of fire, and He did save you from it. Thus Allah maketh clear His revelations unto you, that haply ye may be guided; -
And there may spring from you a nation who invite to goodness, and enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency. Such are they who are successful.
And be ye not as those who separated and disputed after the clear proofs had come unto them. For such there is an awful doom, -
On the day when (some) faces will be whitened and (some) faces will be blackened; and as for those whose faces have been blackened, it will be said unto them: Disbelieved ye after your (profession of) belief? Then taste the punishment for that ye disbelieved. -
As for those whose faces have been whitened, Lo! in the mercy of Allah they dwell for ever. -
These are revelations of Allah. We recite them unto thee in truth. Allah willeth no injustice to (His) creatures. -
Unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth; and unto Allah all things are returned. -
Should be noted that the lines referring to faces being whitened or blackened has nothing to do with skin color, it is about Nur (Light) mainly the spiritual light of knowledge. It is very similar to the "Being filled with the "Holy spirit" spoken of in Christianity.
And what wars/number of people killed occurred as a direct correlation to the absence/near absence of religion within these countries, past or present?
Here's a list for you on the other side of just some of the wars/conflict:
When did this become a numbers game? Your implication was that without religion there would be no reason for war. Clearly there is, even sans religion. Relative numbers have nothing to do with the rhetorical question you posed.
Although I think you may need to add those numbers and not make presumptions. Don't forget Pol Pot's numbers as well.
When did this become a numbers game? Your implication was that without religion there would be no reason for war. Clearly there is, even sans religion. Relative numbers have nothing to do with the rhetorical question you posed.
Although I think you may need to add those numbers and not make presumptions. Don't forget Pol Pot's numbers as well.
Incorrect, I didn't mean to imply without religion there would be no reason for war.
Correct, it was a rhetorical question.
My original OP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64
If religion was a concept that never existed for mankind, I wonder what wars/killing would be avoided over the history of mankind? And what the nuts would shout before wiping out people in place of the name of their flavor of belief? Or perhaps many would have nothing to kill for as that side of the excuse bag wouldn't exist.
If one reads the Qur'an relating it all to those 2 surah it becomes evident the alleged violent verses actually do not promote violence
You can say what you want but ISIS and thousands of its followers read it the way it is written. To them, it is very clear what it says and they are every bit a Muslim as you are.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Sure, as soon as all churches, synagogues and temples are closed also. That might be fun considering the 1st Amendment and SCOTUS decisions would not allow it.
But go fill your boots. Trump spews whatever comes into his mind targeting the lowest base feelings of Americans.
I think the premise of the poll is silly. No, all mosques would never be closed down in American. Come on.
As for Trump, he's got many of you and the media where he wants.....saying something in a clouded/general way then being pushed to clarify it to put the spotlight on himself/an issue, giving himself lots of air time. He's got everyone where he wants them.....and it's apparently working for him. I'm just surprised there's a bunch of people out there that apparently haven't figured it out this mode of operation. And how successful it has been for him.
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