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Of course they don't have to but it sure would eliminate a lot of the controversy and allow them to focus on their services and eliminate a lot of the controversy. You do realize that funds are being cut in many states because it is controversial to provide tax dollars to an organization that performs abortion, right? The suggestion I gave would not eliminate access to abortions either so not sure what the big deal is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charisb
But really, why is this a conflict? Abortions are a safe and LEGAL medical procedure. I actually do not agree with the Hyde Amendment and would be happy for federal taxes to be used for abortions. After all, my tax money is used for many things I do not agree with, such as defense and corporate welfare, but I understand that being part of a society means that I will not 100% agree with ever law or policy.
Just an observation: I find the 'morality' argument against abortion perplexing. After all, if you believe this is against God's will, won't God sort it out? The fetuses will go to heaven, the women and those that help them will go to hell, and those who are anti-choice can get extra nice harps and robes in the after life or something. If you truly believe that life begins at conception and all life is precious, there are many ways you can help and support pregnant women and young children. Just don't worry about the legal activities other people are engaging in.
What I find immoral is forcing women to have children they do not want or cannot take care of.
Why is this a conflict? Because to many, abortion is murder, legal or not. Not everyone is happy that their tax dollars go to an organization that performs something that they believe to be murder. Some states have already moved to take tax dollars away from PP due to this conflict. Just because you find their views, perplexing does not mean that you should force your view on them. Same goes for them who I am sure find your views perplexing. The scenario I presented would still allow for abortion services AND keep PP open and able to continue to receive tax payer subsidies for reproductive care. It's a different way of doing business and one that involves compromise without sacrificing services.
And it would make providers and patients even more isolated and vulnerable.
abortion is legal. PP does not have to make sure people opposed to abortion can "rest easy" their tax dollars are not being used for abortion.
Abortion being legal does not mean PP will be unaffected by an opposition to funding PP. PP uses gov money to pay for many of their fixed costs. Because of that funding they have facilities available for things like abortion. Whether or not the funds go directly to abortion is irrelevant. Its like parents giving you money for a house but only the kitchen. That funding inevitably effects the entire home purchase not just the kitchen.
Eliminate PP abortion and their funding concerns go away.
Abortion being legal does not mean PP will be unaffected by an opposition to funding PP. PP uses gov money to pay for many of their fixed costs. Because of that funding they have facilities available for things like abortion. Whether or not the funds go directly to abortion is irrelevant. Its like parents giving you money for a house but only the kitchen. That funding inevitably effects the entire home purchase not just the kitchen.
Eliminate PP abortion and their funding concerns go away.
no taxpayer gets to have a say where your tax dollars go. abortion is legal. tax dollars do not pay for abortions.
no taxpayer gets to have a say where your tax dollars go. abortion is legal. tax dollars do not pay for abortions.
The buildings are paid for with taxpayer dollars, doctors are employed with taxpayer dollars. Abortion takes place within the buildings. Abortion is yes indirectly subsidized by taxpayer dollars. Taxpayers do indeed have a say where tax dollars go. They exercise that say when they vote for representatives.
If someone pays for your kitchen that effects the dollars spent on the rest of the house when buying. Is that a confusing concept?
It is physically impossible for PP to avoid use of taxpayer dollars on abortions. At least not while using the same facilities, doctors, name brand etc.
We could start by telling public figures to stop engaging in speech that could incite an act of terrorism:
Ted Cruz: In the September G.O.P. debate, Cruz called Planned Parenthood a “criminal enterprise,” guilty of “multiple felonies.” He has signed a letter saying that one of the group’s founders, Margaret Sanger, sought the “extermination” of black Americans. (She did not.) “When millions of Americans rose up against Planned Parenthood, I was proud to lead that fight,” Cruz said, in a debate in October.
Donald Trump: "Well, this was an extremist. And this was a man who they said prior to this was mentally disturbed,” Trump said, according to an early transcript of the interview. “So, he's a mentally disturbed person. There's no question about that.” He added: “I will tell you, there is a tremendous group of people that think it's terrible, all of the videos that they've seen with some of these people from Planned Parenthood talking about it like you're selling parts to a car,” he said. “I mean, there are a lot of people that are very unhappy about that."
Marco Rubio: who seized on the shooting of Cecil the lion as a reason to ask where the outrage was over Planned Parenthood and “dead babies,” didn’t have anything to say about the victims in Colorado
Chris Christie: Chris Christie, who, in one debate, talked about Planned Parenthood engaging in “the systematic murder of children in the womb to preserve their body parts.”
Ben Carson: Well, maybe I’m not objective when it comes to Planned Parenthood. But you know, I know who Margaret Sanger is, and I know that she believed in eugenics, and that she was not particularly enamored with black people. And one of the reasons that you find most of their clinics in black neighborhoods is so that you can find way to control that population. And I think people should go back and read about Margaret Sanger, who founded this place — a woman who Hillary Clinton by the way says she admires. Look and see what many people in Nazi Germany thought about her.”
Rand Paul: “We often have the debate where the other side wants to call it ’tissue.’ But when we’re talking about lungs, brains, hearts, livers, I think it … should make all people shudder that we’re doing this,” he said. “I don’t know how anyone could do that day in and day out, knowing that you’re pulling out the pieces of a baby. I mean, I don’t know how they do it and how they live with themselves
Carly Fiorina: "I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes," she said on the stage at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library Sept. 16. "Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking, while someone says, 'We have to keep it alive to harvest its brain.' Fiorina’s claim makes it sound like there is actual footage of Planned Parenthood examining an aborted fetus whose heart is still beating, while someone says "we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain." There isn't.
Mike Huckabee: We didn't end slavery by just limiting how many slaves a person could own or for how long. We recognized that it is a violation of basic human rights. It's not enough to say we'll end funding for these butchers at Planned Parenthood. We need to end the disgusting disregard for human life that is the foundation for this infanticide that is beneath the dignity of our nation. Let's stop this slaughter and ask God's forgiveness for not doing it sooner!
Ted Cruz: Described in detail the senior Planned Parenthood officials “laughing, sipping chardonnay” while discussing the sale of the body parts of unborn children. “One says she hopes she sells enough to buy herself a Lamborghini,” he said, and then told the story of the StemExpress technician who was instructed to cut through the face of a baby whose heart was still beating in order to harvest its brain. “We are now a nation that harvests the body parts of baby boys and girls,” he asserted, adding that the United States now accepts that children are “sold for profit.” Cruz said it is likely that Planned Parenthood has committed multiple crimes that are punishable with imprisonment, yet asked why the Obama Department of Justice and FBI have failed to open investigations into the abortion organization.
And it would make providers and patients even more isolated and vulnerable.
Maybe. Or maybe they could be savy and come up with ways to avoid that. For instance, battered women's shelters don't advertise their address. Just sayin.
And it's not like those who work at and visit PP for services are not already isolated, vulnerable and at risk.
Last edited by MissTerri; 11-30-2015 at 01:19 PM..
Reason: TMI
We could start by telling public figures to stop engaging in speech that could incite an act of terrorism:
Ted Cruz: In the September G.O.P. debate, Cruz called Planned Parenthood a “criminal enterprise,” guilty of “multiple felonies.” He has signed a letter saying that one of the group’s founders, Margaret Sanger, sought the “extermination” of black Americans. (She did not.) “When millions of Americans rose up against Planned Parenthood, I was proud to lead that fight,” Cruz said, in a debate in October.
Donald Trump: "Well, this was an extremist. And this was a man who they said prior to this was mentally disturbed,” Trump said, according to an early transcript of the interview. “So, he's a mentally disturbed person. There's no question about that.” He added: “I will tell you, there is a tremendous group of people that think it's terrible, all of the videos that they've seen with some of these people from Planned Parenthood talking about it like you're selling parts to a car,” he said. “I mean, there are a lot of people that are very unhappy about that."
Marco Rubio: who seized on the shooting of Cecil the lion as a reason to ask where the outrage was over Planned Parenthood and “dead babies,” didn’t have anything to say about the victims in Colorado
Chris Christie: Chris Christie, who, in one debate, talked about Planned Parenthood engaging in “the systematic murder of children in the womb to preserve their body parts.”
Ben Carson: Well, maybe I’m not objective when it comes to Planned Parenthood. But you know, I know who Margaret Sanger is, and I know that she believed in eugenics, and that she was not particularly enamored with black people. And one of the reasons that you find most of their clinics in black neighborhoods is so that you can find way to control that population. And I think people should go back and read about Margaret Sanger, who founded this place — a woman who Hillary Clinton by the way says she admires. Look and see what many people in Nazi Germany thought about her.”
Rand Paul: “We often have the debate where the other side wants to call it ’tissue.’ But when we’re talking about lungs, brains, hearts, livers, I think it … should make all people shudder that we’re doing this,” he said. “I don’t know how anyone could do that day in and day out, knowing that you’re pulling out the pieces of a baby. I mean, I don’t know how they do it and how they live with themselves
Carly Fiorina: "I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes," she said on the stage at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library Sept. 16. "Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking, while someone says, 'We have to keep it alive to harvest its brain.' Fiorina’s claim makes it sound like there is actual footage of Planned Parenthood examining an aborted fetus whose heart is still beating, while someone says "we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain." There isn't.
Mike Huckabee: We didn't end slavery by just limiting how many slaves a person could own or for how long. We recognized that it is a violation of basic human rights. It's not enough to say we'll end funding for these butchers at Planned Parenthood. We need to end the disgusting disregard for human life that is the foundation for this infanticide that is beneath the dignity of our nation. Let's stop this slaughter and ask God's forgiveness for not doing it sooner!
Ted Cruz: Described in detail the senior Planned Parenthood officials “laughing, sipping chardonnay” while discussing the sale of the body parts of unborn children. “One says she hopes she sells enough to buy herself a Lamborghini,” he said, and then told the story of the StemExpress technician who was instructed to cut through the face of a baby whose heart was still beating in order to harvest its brain. “We are now a nation that harvests the body parts of baby boys and girls,” he asserted, adding that the United States now accepts that children are “sold for profit.” Cruz said it is likely that Planned Parenthood has committed multiple crimes that are punishable with imprisonment, yet asked why the Obama Department of Justice and FBI have failed to open investigations into the abortion organization.
So we jail them? Do we do the same for people who call the NRA terrorists? Or is that OK because you dont like the NRA? You espouse dangerously totalitarian views on this.
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