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Why would you experience this if you are Christian ?
LOL. I didnt say I was a good Christian. I grew up in the Baptist church. At some point I lost my faith I could not accept much of what was taught. Been going back and forth for a long time. I did not say I experienced this, not as a child. My Brother who is Church of Christ use to call me monkey girl and his kids when they were little asked me why I didnt want to go to Heaven. I told them because there was no beer in heaven. LOL.
I try to avoid Christian talk as much as humanly possible.
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The worst times were in the Elementary and early grades of Middle school. At that age the kids are old enough to start discussing religion, not old enough to learn when something isn't appropriate, and are always going for the maximum impact / no insult is too strong.
By the mid teens a lot of them matured enough to think before they said something abrasive.
By our first school reunion you'd never say some of these people were even capable of saying some of the things they were saying back then. Makes me wonder if they indeed change, or just became good at hiding their real attitudes towards people unlike them.
The oldest two of my kids both experienced this in the 1st or 2nd grade. Each time, we would have a conversation with them and tell them how to react if someone says the same thing again. Didn't become a problem either time, but it was upsetting. Perhaps there were more instances but we didn't hear about it, both boys are good at taking care of themselves.
In my case, this was a far bigger problem, since both the times were different (I went to the elementary / middle school in the 70s) and because a lot of this was coming from inside of my extended family. It may also be that I'd get a better treatment if we were Jewish, but since we did not pick a denomination many of my religious classmates and relatives alike believed we were hidden atheists.
Again sorry that happened. Hopefully things have changed.
You're not a kid anymore, and you're not Jewish. My Uncles tell me they were beat up in school or outside school (in Philly) all the time for being Jewish. This was in the 50's, but those people who experienced it are going to grow up wanting something different for their own children, and doing what they can to protect them. People may not get physically beat anymore, but verbal teasing and bullying is still rampant in schools.
No. I was a brown girl from a Hindu family. And have many Jewish friends.
Lived in this same city for 26 years.
Maybe it really is more tolerant here than the fancy pants east coast.
LOL. I didnt say I was a good Christian. I grew up in the Baptist church. At some point I lost my faith I could not accept much of what was taught. Been going back and forth for a long time. I did not say I experienced this, not as a child. My Brother who is Church of Christ use to call me monkey girl and his kids when they were little asked me why I didnt want to go to Heaven. I told them because there was no beer in heaven. LOL.
I try to avoid Christian talk as much as humanly possible.
Which is a polite way to say you're going to Hell... except most kids are not that polite with other kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
Again sorry that happened. Hopefully things have changed.
I surely hope so, too. However this is why I see the reason behind the Jewish mom complaining about the exclusive school practice. It's hard to explain this to someone who's never been on the receiving end of it. I would not want my school to put my kids in a situation where most of their classmates are celebrating and they have to either join in - even if it's against their beliefs - or stand out. (Although I don't care about Santa one way or another - but I can see why an observant Jewish person will find this a difficult choice to make).
The school however handled this very poorly. A typical knee jerk reaction of a bureaucrat who doesn't really know how to handle a complicated situation with tact and fairness.
As I said, they should've had the trip to the coffee shop and make the changes for the following year. Perhaps arrange it so that there were other things in that shop besides Santa so that the kid who didn't get on Santa's laps did not stand out from the rest and did not feel excluded / not getting the same attention. There's probably a myriad different ways to still have the trip and make it all-inclusive and fun without concentrating on Christmas exclusively. But instead the school decided to treat this as a problem rather than an opportunity, and the other mom turned it into her own personal well publicized crusade.
What do you think it would cost the taxpayers for the children to walk less than one mile to a café, drink free hot chocolate, and sit on Santa's lap [if they chose to] ? Zero ? This wasn't an all-day, multi-bus trip to a fancy or expensive venue. Further, the school has a system for parents to financially support field trips, if necessary.
There are sensible reasons to not have Santa Claus as the centerpiece of a school trip. 'Cost to the taxpayer' isn't among them in this specific case.
I agree. Parents pay for all field trips at our public school.
However, your flip remark regarding the cost of a trip to Santa meaning no school supplies for the rest of the year is pretty close to reality for a lot of public schools.
I agree. Parents pay for all field trips at our public school.
However, your flip remark regarding the cost of a trip to Santa meaning no school supplies for the rest of the year is pretty close to reality for a lot of public schools.
Even though we lived in one of the poorest congressional district for urban area. When I went to public school, trips were never funded by the school and parents had to pay for the trips. If not the school paid for partially or the PTA would have fund raisers so that money can be acquired so that students can attend trips. This was about 20 years ago and trips cost about $5 per student. It wasn't cheap.
As for this whole Santa Fiasco? The school should have parents flip money for the trip or held a fundraiser for the trip, or host the trip during none school hours.
As for the Jewish woman? If you're religious minority in a particular area, it would be best to be in an area with lots of your religious minorities around congregate. If I was her and I don't want my child to be isolated because he is the only Jew. Wouldn't be best to move to NYC, South Florida or the LA area where lots of Jews congregate and hold sway, aswell as sharing the same traditions? Believe me. If I was a person of a religious minority, I would prefer to live in an area with people similar to my faith, so that me and my family wont feel alienated by the community.
Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 12-29-2015 at 05:37 PM..
I agree. Parents pay for all field trips at our public school.
However, your flip remark regarding the cost of a trip to Santa meaning no school supplies for the rest of the year is pretty close to reality for a lot of public schools.
This particular trip was a walk to a local café. No transportation costs, entry fee, seat tickets, food. So for this trip, I can't come up with what the costs would be.
This particular trip was a walk to a local café. No transportation costs, entry fee, seat tickets, food. So for this trip, I can't come up with what the costs would be.
Yes I get it.
My point to you was that something that seemingly small can indeed send a school into the red.
I get that this particular trip did not cost anything, potentially.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama
Sure, a brief walking trip to a local café means no school supplies for the rest of the year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
I know you're being facetious, but my child's school has exactly $72 left in the budget for the rest of the year.
santa does not have anything to do with the bible. nothing to do with jesus which is what christmas is supposed to be all about, right? i haven't read the whole bible, but i'm pretty sure there is no mention of santa claus in there. there comes a time when kids must be told that santa is, in fact, not real and that it is all a made up story. there may have been a real person that inspired the santa claus fantasy. but it is all made up and really has nothing to do with the bible or the "true meaning of christmas". santa is not included in any manger scenes that i have seen in my 52 years. except maybe as some sort of joke.
I agree that Santa is made up and not in the bible, but.....
Baptist Temple Church in Fall River, Mass., has launched its live nativity scene for the 2013 holiday season and features in its online photo gallery of the setting Santa Claus, in full costume, bowing to a baby Jesus.
The "family-friendly" Baptist church's new take on the nativity scene meant to depict the biblical account in Luke 2 of Jesus' birth, was so unusual that it warranted coverage in the local press.
When I was working full-time as a reporter and photographer in Virginia, I once spent a Saturday shortly before Christmas with a local institution: the Merrifield Garden Center Santa Claus.
The photo that I took on that assignment became one of the most popular I ever made: Santa — played by a local Catholic man — kneeling in front of a Nativity scene, hands pressed together and eyes closed. Children swarmed around him, emulating his gestures. It really was a sight to see, and the image has always stayed with me.
You're not a kid anymore, and you're not Jewish. My Uncles tell me they were beat up in school or outside school (in Philly) all the time for being Jewish. This was in the 50's, but those people who experienced it are going to grow up wanting something different for their own children, and doing what they can to protect them. People may not get physically beat anymore, but verbal teasing and bullying is still rampant in schools.
Your uncles aren't exactly representative of all Jewish people. We had Jewish people, Muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and atheists (among the more "mainstream" and common Catholics and Protestants) at my schools. Newsflash: No one cared.
Even though we lived in one of the poorest congressional district for urban area. When I went to public school, trips were never funded by the school and parents had to pay for the trips. If not the school paid for partially or the PTA would have fund raisers so that money can be acquired so that students can attend trips. This was about 20 years ago and trips cost about $5 per student. It wasn't cheap.
As for this whole Santa Fiasco? The school should have parents flip money for the trip or held a fundraiser for the trip, or host the trip during none school hours.
As for the Jewish woman? If you're religious minority in a particular area, it would be best to be in an area with lots of your religious minorities around congregate. If I was her and I don't want my child to be isolated because he is the only Jew. Wouldn't be best to move to NYC, South Florida or the LA area where lots of Jews congregate and hold sway, aswell as sharing the same traditions? Believe me. If I was a person of a religious minority, I would prefer to live in an area with people similar to my faith, so that me and my family wont feel alienated by the community.
Expecting someone to quit their job(s) and move away is a p*ss-poor solution to the problem. Where they live is their decision. Or do you think we should go back to the days of "de facto" segregation, where people of certain races/religions were "steered" to certain parts of town, or, in the case of your suggestion, out of town altogether? I'm sure there are other Jewish families in San Jose, if not any with kids in this child's class. In fact, San Francisco/San Jose has the 13th highest Jewish population in the world. 0.68% of San Jose's population is Jewish, and while that does not seem like a lot, it is about the national average, and higher than the Lutheran population. The Bay Area has the third largest Jewish population in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish...by_urban_areas
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed Bay Area's growing Jewish scene - Israel Jewish Scene, Ynetnews
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama
This particular trip was a walk to a local café. No transportation costs, entry fee, seat tickets, food. So for this trip, I can't come up with what the costs would be.
See below, from a previous post in this very thread, posted on this very day:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
The teacher's salary is still paid for by the taxpayers. If a para-pro, or any other school employee goes along, their salary is paid for by the taxpayers. My friend is a health room para (sometimes called the "School Nurse" though she isn't an RN) and she sometimes has to accompany a field trip if a child with special health needs (usually a diabetic) goes and a family member of that child can't go along. She also spends a lot of time putting meds together for kids who need them while away from school on field trips. PTO might pay the admission fee for some activity, and maybe the bus, but it doesn't cover this other stuff, at least in my district.
You can argue that the teacher and other staff would be paid no matter what they were doing, but that is how costs are figured. In addition, there are a lot of "behind the scenes" costs to a field trip. Getting the permission slips out, getting them back, etc, etc. They're not free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
2. Sorry but I believe in majority rule.
That is not how constitutional rights are determined. The constitution protects everyone from someone or some group imposing their religion on them.
Last edited by Yac; 01-27-2016 at 07:05 AM..
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