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The mom did more than write a letter.
And both are right and fair.
Again Santa is not a religion
Well it was the class that was scheduled for the trip not the entire school or town. I dont think thats what the poster said.
Its actually a natural instinct for people to segregate themselves. You will see peoples of different cultures and races and religions who gravitate towards like communities. I think the idea is commonality makes life easier. Why would one want to be in an area where almost everyone has a different religious, racial or cultural makeup and then pitch a fit because they celebrate their religious, racial or cultural makeup.
No one is suggesting intolerance or against diversity but no one likes their established culture to be overthrown and disassembled by a minority group.
There is a saying...When in Rome....
Which does not mean your own culture cant also be embraced.
This is an exact quote from the post:
"As for the Jewish woman? If you're religious minority in a particular area, it would be best to be in an area with lots of your religious minorities around congregate. If I was her and I don't want my child to be isolated because he is the only Jew. Wouldn't be best to move to NYC, South Florida or the LA area where lots of Jews congregate and hold sway, aswell as sharing the same traditions?"
No one is overthrowing anything, it's a public school which is not the place to celebrate religious holidays in the first place YET they spent an entire week doing Christmas activities anyway. No one was deprived of anything important.
In other words, a 10 year tradition of celebrating the Birth of Jesus Christ by a publicly funded school trip. Which is how most non-Christians and deeply religious Christians see Christmas.
Extremism.
When the school has a nativity scene, plays A Savior is Born over loudspeakers, or uses Christian Crafts in curriculum, you'd have a point. Meanwhile, you simply want the activities in This class to be thought of as celebrating the Birth of Jesus Christ. As the discussion continues, the arguments become more and more tenuous.
Yes but were are not talking about imposing a religion. We are talking about a 10 year tradition of seeing Santa Clause. There is a difference.
Not everything we do is specified under the Constitution. If we did not have a majority rule in this country we would not have these things called elections, voting, and referendums.
That New York state prayer that was declared unconstitutional was extremely non-denominational. It meant nothing to any religion. Yet is was declared unconstitutional to make kids recite it. And if I'm sure of anything, I'm sure that there were "opt-out" provisions for it as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
No a 10 year tradition of walking to the cafe to sip hot chocolate and sit on santas lap if you want.
Its a field trip, not every child is being forced to join in. Kids skip out on school activities and field trips all the time. I dont see the big deal, either you want to participate or you dont. If you have convictions that prevent you allowing your child to participate in anything be it a trip to see Santa, football, watching movies, eating meat in the school cafeteria, that is something you choose an if you have to be odd man out, deal with it privately and dont try to make everyone else conform to your convictions.
Is there a holiday associated in any way with another religion on such a grand scale that is celebrated by people not of that or any religion and a federal holiday?
I agree there is no need to celebrate any religious holidays but Ill ask again, is there a holiday associated in any way with another religion on such a grand scale that is celebrated by people not of that or any religion and a federal holiday?
Remove Christmas as a federal holiday and then lets talk about removing it from schools as a religious holiday. That distinction needs to be drawn. If Christmas is a religious holiday remove all aspects of it from government institutions and non Christians STOP celebrating it.
Sit on Santa's lap and tell him what you want for Christmas! They wrote those letters, remember, asking Santa for gifts!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
You know that statement is contradictory this premise going on here that Jews are prohibited by their religion to be exposed to Santa and thus this tradition must be thrown out to protect the religious beliefs of one Jewish kid.
You still don't get it, do you? And for Pity's sake, learn to freaking multiquote so we don't all have to fix our posts when we quote you, so people know it's not us posting!
"As for the Jewish woman? If you're religious minority in a particular area, it would be best to be in an area with lots of your religious minorities around congregate. If I was her and I don't want my child to be isolated because he is the only Jew. Wouldn't be best to move to NYC, South Florida or the LA area where lots of Jews congregate and hold sway, aswell as sharing the same traditions?"
No one is overthrowing anything, it's a public school which is not the place to celebrate religious holidays in the first place YET they spent an entire week doing Christmas activities anyway. No one was deprived of anything important.
Yes it would be best for her and her child.
If I were tranny, I wouldnt want to live where I do, Id move to some place more liberal. If I were an atheist I wouldn't move to Mennonite country. I certainly wouldnt throw a fit and expect everyone else not to be straight or stop going to church because I felt left out. Its not that hard of a concept.
Christmas not religious holiday, federal holiday. According to Jewish mom, we cant celebrate one holiday for 5 days. No evidence anyone spent an entire week doing Christmas activities so quit saying they spent an entire week doing Christmas activities. Yes the k class was deprived of their 10 year standing walking trip to see Santa. Maybe not important to you but apparently to those kids and their parents.
I am not wrong.
Quote:
Nearly all U.S. Christians (96%) say they celebrate Christmas.
Pew Research Center
Quote:
A new study by LifeWay Research reveals that nine in 10 Americans (91 percent) personally celebrate Christmas and those aren't all self-identified Christians.
Quote:
Ninety-five percent of Americans celebrate Christmas,
Quote:
This trend toward greater religious meaning in Christmas is evident even as the percentage of Americans who say they celebrate Christmas has stayed consistent in recent years -- ranging between 93% and 96% in six separate Gallup measurements since 1994.
Gallup Poll
Quote:
Nine in 10 Americans say they celebrate Christmas - including 80 percent of non-Christians, according to a poll released on Wednesday.
That New York state prayer that was declared unconstitutional was extremely non-denominational. It meant nothing to any religion. Yet is was declared unconstitutional to make kids recite it. And if I'm sure of anything, I'm sure that there were "opt-out" provisions for it as well.
Again irrelevant to Santa Clause.
Santa Clause trip is not praying.
Quote:
Sit on Santa's lap and tell him what you want for Christmas! They wrote those letters, remember, asking Santa for gifts!
?. So.
Quote:
You still don't get it, do you?
Nope.
Its against Jewish religion to acknowledge Santa = The majority of American Jews are not that religious and want their kids to have the same experience growing up as everyone else.
uh, nope.
Quote:
And for Pity's sake, learn to freaking multiquote so we don't all have to fix our posts when we quote you, so people know it's not us posting!
Uh, nope. I'll do it how I want to.
Just because the majority of posters do it one way you expect me to go against my beliefs and do it your way. What about inclusion. I think you should stop multiquoting the way you have always done it.
No one is overthrowing anything, it's a public school which is not the place to celebrate religious holidays in the first place YET they spent an entire week doing Christmas activities anyway. No one was deprived of anything important.
There you go again --- '... they spent an entire week doing Christmas activities anyway.'
Though you're quoting the mother, you clearly want to give the impression that doing Christmas monopolized class time. Even if writing letters to Santa, dressing as reindeer, and 'unspecified activities' are doing Christmas, you don't know how much time was involved.
There you go again --- '... they spent an entire week doing Christmas activities anyway.'
Though you're quoting the mother, you clearly want to give the impression that doing Christmas monopolized class time. Even if writing letters to Santa, dressing as reindeer, and 'unspecified activities' are doing Christmas, you don't know how much time was involved.
Actually, it doesn't matter if it was only 10 minutes a day. This is not appropriate for PUBLIC schools!
Again irrelevant to Santa Clause.
Santa Clause trip is not praying.
?. So.
Nope.
Its against Jewish religion to acknowledge Santa = The majority of American Jews are not that religious and want their kids to have the same experience growing up as everyone else.
uh, nope.
Uh, nope. I'll do it how I want to.
Just because the majority of posters do it one way you expect me to go against my beliefs and do it your way. What about inclusion. I think you should stop multiquoting the way you have always done it.
I'm not an attorney, but I bet you I could find one to argue that SC is a Christian symbol. It doesn't matter that you posted that offensive picture of a Jewish Santa with no attribution which is supposed to be against the TOS. Santa certainly has nothing to do with any Jewish, Muslim, Hindu celebration. Just because a few lapsed Christians still do the SC stufff that does not make it secular!
So Jewish kids don't get Christmas gifts! (For the nth time.)
When you screw up your posts that have a quote inside them from somebody else and they get multiquoted, it looks like the other person made your statements. I certainly don't want any of them attributed to ME! Just because you refuse to learn how to do it properly is no excuse.
I'm not an attorney, but I bet you I could find one to argue that SC is a Christian symbol. It doesn't matter that you posted that offensive picture of a Jewish Santa with no attribution which is supposed to be against the TOS. Santa certainly has nothing to do with any Jewish, Muslim, Hindu celebration. Just because a few lapsed Christians still do the SC stufff that does not make it secular!
So Jewish kids don't get Christmas gifts! (For the nth time.)
When you screw up your posts that have a quote inside them from somebody else and they get multiquoted, it looks like the other person made your statements. I certainly don't want any of them attributed to ME! Just because you refuse to learn how to do it properly is no excuse.
ETA: I just had to fix this one!
Well show some proof Santa is a Christian symbol. Show me where he is celebrated in scripture, in the church, or where it is taught that that mythical figure is representative of God or Jesus.
There are no other posters names on my quote, just yours.
I went back and did a search for "Christian" then read through post 520. Here's what I found.
From you:
Certainly, considering that church membership is dropping, yet people here are quoting a 90% figure for celebrating Christmas, a lot of people don't see Christmas as particularly Christian.
we are saying that WE do not celebrate it in a christian and/or religious way. NOT that it does not have anything to do with christianity! seriously! you don't get that? you were talking about people saying CHRISTMAS does not have anything to do with CHRISTIANITY. i still don't see where anyone said that. they, and me too, have said they don't celebrate it in that way. it is secular to them. not that it is not a religious holiday. get it?
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