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Old 05-27-2017, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,903,106 times
Reputation: 14125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
Upon leaving the school grounds, she abandoned her right to assert. She walked away. I agree that is another reason to enforce insubordination and suspension.

Not expelled, suspended. Most exams are electronic, and I see no reason why the student could not write online in a supervised location - like a library.

Why did the student pull this stunt so close to exams?
This is why Occam's Razor says it was principal driven, not student. Maybe the student was more defensive which is common in authority issues but many in authority have it go to their head and react wrongly regardless if the other person does or doesn't.

Case in point, I worked a car show and controled access at a bike rack (barricade, guard rail) and it was right in front of a bath room with another maybe 500 feet the other way. I had two different guests at the event complain they that I am impeding on their right to use a bathroom at the venue. So I tell them they cannot and after about two minutes the first relents. The second made a scene and asked to talk to a police officer to command me to relent. The officer then said what I said was what the guest had to follow. The guest complained that his son could have peed himself with how long we took but the police responded, you could have been done by now. I could have easily gotten short with the second first and defiantly said "No, and you even ask me again I'll throw you out" (common thing for what can happen in these situations) but I didn't because I realized next to safety, guest satisfaction was paramount. Using that line many of the other guards use would have escalated things. I've only done that once with a guest but I was justified because they were clearly inebriated and falling over into bike racks and the pop up for the buffer point, AFTER telling my manager.
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Old 05-27-2017, 11:07 PM
 
7,489 posts, read 4,956,715 times
Reputation: 8031
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
This is why Occam's Razor says it was principal driven, not student. Maybe the student was more defensive which is common in authority issues but many in authority have it go to their head and react wrongly regardless if the other person does or doesn't.

Case in point, I worked a car show and controled access at a bike rack (barricade, guard rail) and it was right in front of a bath room with another maybe 500 feet the other way. I had two different guests at the event complain they that I am impeding on their right to use a bathroom at the venue. So I tell them they cannot and after about two minutes the first relents. The second made a scene and asked to talk to a police officer to command me to relent. The officer then said what I said was what the guest had to follow. The guest complained that his son could have peed himself with how long we took but the police responded, you could have been done by now. I could have easily gotten short with the second first and defiantly said "No, and you even ask me again I'll throw you out" (common thing for what can happen in these situations) but I didn't because I realized next to safety, guest satisfaction was paramount. Using that line many of the other guards use would have escalated things. I've only done that once with a guest but I was justified because they were clearly inebriated and falling over into bike racks and the pop up for the buffer point, AFTER telling my manager.
This was not principal driven. The student knew the rules, yet chose to wear inappropriate clothing to school. After several hours at school inappropriately dressed, the student was approached by the principal. Efforts to enforce dress code were met with confrontation, and the student chose to leave the building rather than comply. Case closed.

Students who cannot take on the responsibility of playing by the rules lose their independence.
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Old 05-27-2017, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,903,106 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
This was not principal driven. The student knew the rules, yet chose to wear inappropriate clothing to school. After several hours at school inappropriately dressed, the student was approached by the principal. Efforts to enforce dress code were met with confrontation, and the student chose to leave the building rather than comply. Case closed.

Students who cannot take on the responsibility of playing by the rules lose their independence.

If the principal is that much of a dress code stickler, seek school uniforms. 90% of dress code issues will be done. My school has dress code but I rarely see anyone called in for whether it is too short shorts, yoga pants/leggings out of him, etc. This top from the front is only really a problem if you are very busty. The back was the main issue. I don't see how by the facts given the principal is not at least half the blame. Most of the story hasn't come out but what we have, Occam's Razor points to the principal being in the wrong due to several incidents with this student and looking to put the screws to her one last time.
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Old 05-28-2017, 12:12 AM
 
11,025 posts, read 7,843,194 times
Reputation: 23702
The key questions that a judge may need to answer start with "was the rule banning such a shirt reasonable?" Followed by "was the principal's interpretation of that rule correct?" It may then go towards the principal's actions in forcing the student to comply and if the presence of an armed officer threatening arrest was appropriate. This would include forcing the student to go to the oddly named "control center" to change clothes. If there actually was an agreement in place for the parent to be advised before any disciplinary action was taken, why was this agreement not adhered to?

Before these, and possibly other questions, are answered comments here are simply uninformed opinions. We do not simply cede total control to the administration when we send our children to school, the rule of law still applies.
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Old 05-28-2017, 02:09 AM
 
9,418 posts, read 13,500,168 times
Reputation: 10305
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
What I think is, that the student was right, and the principal way over reacted. The fault lies in the student's parents enrolling her in some holy roller school in the first place. If the girl managed to comply for almost 4 years, she could have reasonably hung in for a few more weeks.
Not a holy roller school. It's a public high school.
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Old 05-28-2017, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Sweden
23,857 posts, read 71,331,625 times
Reputation: 18600
Consequences for breaking a rule is one thing, but please make me understand why it is ok to have an officer with his hand on a gun threatening to take her away in handcuffs.
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Old 05-28-2017, 11:31 AM
 
531 posts, read 384,620 times
Reputation: 904
Hopefully she's learned to follow the rules now.
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:10 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,291,156 times
Reputation: 28564
Just put kids in school uniforms already. It's so much easier for everyone involved.

I never heard of students, male or female, being reprimanded for their attire anywhere I ever lived where school uniforms were the norm.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:09 AM
 
3,279 posts, read 5,319,577 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSwede View Post
Consequences for breaking a rule is one thing, but please make me understand why it is ok to have an officer with his hand on a gun threatening to take her away in handcuffs.
Amen to that. His act showed him to be all about his power and getting mad over being defied, not over the relevance, importance and substance of a given issue.

I am sick of people in positions of authority expecting everyone around them and under them to practically be robots. I saw the shirt, it's fine, it's not in the dress code WHO FLIPPING CARES and big deal if someone sees a shoulder already. I understand not "sexualizing" things but gee whiz, my 10 year old daughter went to a water park through her school and all the girls had to cover up their bathing suits. I left it alone, some things aren't worth pitching a fit over, but gee whiz, 10 year old girls can't wear a bathing suit? What next, are they going to have to cover up neck-to-ankle?

The sexualization thing--to me it's one thing if someone is wearing "booty" shorts and showing tons of cleavage, that's clearly "advertising" in someway, but this is getting ridiculous the degree they are taking to lately. Moreover, this girl has a 4.4 GPA, people that smart shouldn't have to deal with stupid rules made up by people with lower IQs than themselves.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,822 posts, read 24,335,838 times
Reputation: 32953
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Just put kids in school uniforms already. It's so much easier for everyone involved.

I never heard of students, male or female, being reprimanded for their attire anywhere I ever lived where school uniforms were the norm.
I have. In a Catholic school because the girls would roll up their skirts to make them too short.
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