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This is your exact quote. It seems to strongly imply that withouth the protection of an HOA, there's a high "risk" of moving next door to a horrible neighbor (people who paint their homes fuschia & lime green, never mow the yard, and keep 19 trucks in the front yard).
You presented the options as two "choices" - HOA with protection or non-HOA with risk.
People tend to do what is "normal" for the neighborhood. So if you find a well cared for neighborhood with no HOA, 99.9% of neighbors are going to take good care of their properties. If you move into a neighborhood with yellow, green, pink, and purple homes.....then that's probably what the neighbors will do.
And I finished my statement with.."More established places can have more mature neighborhood cultures as well that just 'get it', where new places can be wrought with new people who have no clue." Maybe that wasn't clear to you, but meant as a direct reference to the older neighborhoods closer in.
And yes, there are usually only two choices right? There is risk with either scenario, it's really a matter of what brings a person peace of mind. Also I assume these places you mentioned in Dallas all have relatively active Coding Authorities? Same difference at that point..I personally live in a place where people have to rely on the zoning laws and the town by-laws for rules, where complaints typically fall under the jurisdiction of the local building inspector. You can imagine this isn't the best method...In my experience, unless the town is very well off and there is alot of Civic pride which usually comes with 'maturity' (like the town I grew up in) the risk can increase making a HOA is not such a bad option. Which is ultimately my point to the OP..Not that all the places in Dallas without HOAs are crapfests, sorry if I confused you.
You didn't mention that the established neighborhoods "get it" in your OP although I appreciate the point. But if a similar "type" of people - income, race, etc- are living in Ridgewood Park and the L Streets AND Allen/ Frisco/ McKinney.....how come the non-HOA'ers in Dallas haven't destroyed their neighborhoods and taken advantage of their "freedom"? How come the middle class folks in Allen/ Frisco / McKinney can't be trusted to pick a decent shade of paint for their front door or pick nice flowers & trees for their front yards?
Not sure, other than to say that the places you may be referring to were built during a time when HOAs were non-existent and it's would be a legal impossibility to get one implemented after the fact..I think the newer developments are established with them since it's part of the way subdivisions are developed down there now..They definitely don't work in MA for that reason, there isn't one town I can think of that has one since all the towns are very old.
By the way this is a great article that validates some of your points...
Who cares, that was a weak reference anyway since all those areas have a built-in HOA called WEALTH..It's a barrier to entry to all the knuckleheads that most of us middle class people have to actually worry about and need HOAs to help protect, in the neighborhoods we were actually talking about in this thread.
Anyway, I thought I mentioned the fact that alot of mature/established neighborhoods without HOAs usually 'get it' anyway..Meaning the maintaining property values because people care. I didn't say you needed a HOA to accomplish that, and that is not what I meant, maybe I didn't get that across.
It isn't just wealth, it's also cities with strong building codes and a city government willing to vigorously enforce them, like what we have in Richardson...and/or mature people with taste and common sense. My neighborhood isn't rich and we don't have an HOA telling us to cut our grass or to not paint our houses purple. We just keep them nice without anyone telling us to. Isn't that something?
"How come the middle class folks in Allen/ Frisco / McKinney can't be trusted to pick a decent shade of paint for their front door or pick nice flowers & trees for their front yards?"
This what baffles me. A person works hard to move into a nice neighborhood and then it is determined they don't have enough common sense to not paint there house Hot pink or black. You have a few nutty people regardless of their income bracket. This is certainly a exception to the rule.
"How come the middle class folks in Allen/ Frisco / McKinney can't be trusted to pick a decent shade of paint for their front door or pick nice flowers & trees for their front yards?"
This what baffles me. A person works hard to move into a nice neighborhood and then it is determined they don't have enough common sense to not paint there house Hot pink or black. You have a few nutty people regardless of their income bracket. This is certainly a exception to the rule.
I have neighbors who deep-fry turkeys on their driveway at Thanksgiving and have crawfish boils (on the driveway) at various times of the year. Does that count? I mean...they're from...*whispering* Louisiana so we can't expect them to know better, right?
I have neighbors who deep-fry turkeys on their driveway at Thanksgiving and have crawfish boils (on the driveway) at various times of the year. Does that count? I mean...they're from...*whispering* Louisiana so we can't expect them to know better, right?
I have/had a neighbor who's car leaked oil like the Exxon Valdez. I was not crazy about it but I would much rather deal with her than some HOA telling me I have to plant a red oak tree instead of a crepe myrtle. I certainly would not like the fact that if I did not do exactly what the HOA said I could be fined dailey and in a worse case scenary they could take my house from me. I would rather deal with the crawfish boils than any entity that has the power to take my home. I'm not willing to give my freedom away so freely. Again I have no issue with HOA's that sole purpose is to keep the neighborhood neat and tidy. It's the ultra restrictive ones that I could never be apart of. To each his own I say.
If your moving to the northern burbs or most any new development then a HOA is going to be a given. The best thing to do is look over the rules and regulations of each HOA and choose one that seems to use common sense. Keeping your grass cut or fence maintained is what I would consider reasonable. Telling you want kind of plants/trees you can plant is to restrictive in my opinion. Just read the rules before you buy and determine if they are rules you are willing to abide by.
I have/had a neighbor who's car leaked oil like the Exxon Valdez. I was not crazy about it but I would much rather deal with her than some HOA telling me I have to plant a red oak tree instead of a crepe myrtle. I certainly would not like the fact that if I did not do exactly what the HOA said I could be fined dailey and in a worse case scenary they could take my house from me. I would rather deal with the crawfish boils than any entity that has the power to take my home. I'm not willing to give my freedom away so freely. Again I have no issue with HOA's that sole purpose is to keep the neighborhood neat and tidy. It's the ultra restrictive ones that I could never be apart of. To each his own I say.
And to top it off you are PAYING them to take your freedom away (you as in general people). In my experience (having come from govt. housing and now am in the upper middle class), people who are middle class or higher will not be buying a home in a lower income neighborhood where sometimes you do see the unusual colors or the broken down cars. Typically, I believe, middle income communities will look alike because that's just how it is. The neighborhood has a certain look which is what attracted people in the first place and they will continue to uphold that look because that is what they want and for the most part, an HOA is not needed.
I have lots and lots of church friends who live in the largest planned community here in Sachse, called Woodbridge, and when I drive through it I am so jealous because the houses look so nice and rich; they have several swimming pools, trails, golf course, the works pretty much. BUT I've heard them complain about getting a notice because their trash can is out for longer than a day while a neighbor down the street has had theirs out for days and still nothing. Or how the swing set can not be this close or that far from the house or the fence. Or if they want to plant certain plants they have to get approval. The list goes on and on. I just can't fathom PAYING someone (or group) to tell ME what I can or can not do with my house.
From what I've read here, it seems that the newer developments have this type of HOA while the older neighborhoods have a more moderate HOA. I don't know, whenever I hear HOA, it upsets me so much. As I do my research for our second home, it angers me that my choices are limited because I do not EVER want to belong to an HOA. Oh well....
I like my HOA. They ensure a nice, uniform look throughout the neighborhoods. They also provide lawn care, pool upkeep, security alarm monitoring, and security patrols.
At our last house, there was only a voluntary HOA. One of my neighbors decided to cut down some trees in front of his house, and put up something that appeared to be aluminum foil in his street-facing windows to deflect the sun since the trees no longer provided any shade there. Another neighbor decided to keep his political lawn signs up year round after the 2008 elections...they were still there when we moved last December. Other neighbors failed to replace torn screens and dinged up shutters years after a hail storm.
I like the mandatory HOA in the new neighborhood.
Those are all things that could have been turned into the city neighborhood code enforcement and they should have dealt w/ those issues.
One can no longer just cut down trees and not replace them if they do not already have "x" number on their lot and number determined by lot size by the city. Or they can confirm the tree was diseased. Torn screens, lawn signs, etc are all a part of our cities code enforcement in my area. All one has to do is pick up the phone and call them and they will go out and check it out. Will issue a notice and if the matter is not rectified within the specified number of days then the city will fine the property owner. Property owner doesn't pay the fine then the city will put it on their electric/water bill and if not paid they can lose their electric and water. Nice incentive to a city owning their own power plant and water plant
Quote:
Originally Posted by skids929
And I finished my statement with.."More established places can have more mature neighborhood cultures as well that just 'get it', where new places can be wrought with new people who have no clue." Maybe that wasn't clear to you, but meant as a direct reference to the older neighborhoods closer in.
And yes, there are usually only two choices right? There is risk with either scenario, it's really a matter of what brings a person peace of mind. Also I assume these places you mentioned in Dallas all have relatively active Coding Authorities? Same difference at that point..I personally live in a place where people have to rely on the zoning laws and the town by-laws for rules, where complaints typically fall under the jurisdiction of the local building inspector. You can imagine this isn't the best method...In my experience, unless the town is very well off and there is alot of Civic pride which usually comes with 'maturity' (like the town I grew up in) the risk can increase making a HOA is not such a bad option. Which is ultimately my point to the OP..Not that all the places in Dallas without HOAs are crapfests, sorry if I confused you.
Um, if it is within the city limits of Dallas they only have the City of Dallas code and neighborhood enforcement. Does not matter the wealth of the neighborhood from one side of Dallas to the other........ they ALL have to abide by the same codes that are adopted by the City of Dallas.
Preston Hollow is just a "neighborhood" as are all of the others listed by TurtleCreek w/ the exception of Highland Park and University Park (they are their own cities) that are IN the City Limits of Dallas and under the jurisdiction of Dallas when it comes to property issues. The person in Preston Hollow that wants to call and complain about a neighbors unkept yard has to call the same number and talk to the same person as the property owner in South Dallas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek
It isn't just wealth, it's also cities with strong building codes and a city government willing to vigorously enforce them, like what we have in Richardson...and/or mature people with taste and common sense. My neighborhood isn't rich and we don't have an HOA telling us to cut our grass or to not paint our houses purple. We just keep them nice without anyone telling us to. Isn't that something?
My parents live in an older neighborhood of custom homes w/ no HOA and their neighborhood is very well cared for, highly sought after if and when a house does go up for sale and the prices are stable and no foreclosures. Houses in their neighborhood start around $190K and go up to around $300K. Just takes pride in ownership and a strong city code department.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek
I have neighbors who deep-fry turkeys on their driveway at Thanksgiving and have crawfish boils (on the driveway) at various times of the year. Does that count? I mean...they're from...*whispering* Louisiana so we can't expect them to know better, right?
Dangit.......... you found me Exept I'm not from Louisiana. I like crawfish boils and cookouts
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(you as in general people). In my experience (having come from govt. housing and now am in the upper middle class), people who are middle class or higher will not be buying a home in a lower income neighborhood where sometimes you do see the unusual colors or the broken down cars. Typically, I believe, middle income communities will look alike because that's just how it is. The neighborhood has a certain look which is what attracted people in the first place and they will continue to uphold that look because that is what they want and for the most part, an HOA is not needed. 
Exept I'm not from Louisiana. I like crawfish boils and cookouts 
