Gifted & Talented Testing for Elementary (Richland: credit, transfer, middle school)

[akpack]

Originally Posted by GreyDay

You would think so and in a perfect world, yes, it wouldn't matter. However if you're only controlling for economics, you're not measuring how the child 'fits' into their school. How they feel emotionally walking the halls, how they fare in the dating pool and a member of a different race. These all come into play with their emotional well-being everyday and do affect their performance.

But while it's not a cure-all, an elite prep-school education can do wonders for a kid born on the east side.

However it all depends on the metric you use, ivy admittance isn't the end-all, be-all, you could measure income at 10-20 years after graduation, subjective social standing (say a poorly-paid, but well-respected curator).

true, ivy league definitely isn't end all. i know a couple of unemployed harvard grads. and there are more millionaires without college degrees than with (or at least it used to be that way not too long ago but not sure now). but admittance into an ivy is an easy measurement of scholastic achievement. and there are some fields where you are pretty much precluded if you don't come from one of twenty schools or so.

[akpack]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

1. Moderator cut: orphaned

2. I was trying to HELP YOU understand the kind of student the TAG program in HPISD seeks to accommodate. Have you even investigated the elementary school TAG curriculum? Because I don't think it's going to meet your expectations for how you want to structure your child's academic experience. It's much more "exploratory" (going outside the bounds of traditional reading , writing, and arithmetic) and curiosity based and not about going above grade level. Kids need the maturity to comprehend and discuss things above grade level (ie, knowing about & discussing Iran's position in the Middle East and having an opinion or questions about how the US should strategically handle the situation), but the work done in TAG isn't simply above grade work. We spent time discussing Rodney King and other current events in TAG, as well as doing a lot of physics projects without knowing the subject was "physics." There IS a big difference between book smart/ math genius type kids and the type of typical TAG kid. It's not something I "look down upon" or "sneer at" by any means. Unfortunately for you, the district's TAG program caters to one group and not the other.

3. Based on the info you've provided think you would be better off home schooling or calling Dr. Orr to discuss sending your kid to the middle or high schools for math classes.

it is my understanding that the TAG kids get bumped up a year in math. that's all i care about. he's definitely not at middle school math but the curriculum is going way too slow and i am not the only parent who thinks so.

i used to laugh at homeschooling parents but now, i can empathize.

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by akpack

it is my understanding that the TAG kids get bumped up a year in math. that's all i care about. he's definitely not at middle school math but the curriculum is going way too slow and i am not the only parent who thinks so.

i used to laugh at homeschooling parents but now, i can empathize.

I still think, regardless of whether kid gets into Explorations or not, you need to look into Singapore Math (what all the Plano ISD Asian families do) for math enrichment for your kid. I think that is what you are looking for, not necessarily Explorations- which is NOT a "math heavy" program AT ALL. Yes, math is part of the curriculum but not in a constant tracking with grade above. Since it's a pull-out program and not an immersion program, t wouldn't be possible to complete the entire grade above curriculums in various subjects, let alone math.

Once you hit the middle school, kids who are ready for algebra a year early (7th vs 8th) do get bumped up and that follows through high school ending with AP Calculus the senior year (which regular grade level kids don't take). If your kid is working 2+ grades above, the district does a GREAT job of facilitating movement between campuses and ultimately to SMU for college level & beyond math.

A kid in my class was a math genius and is now a computer processor at a very good university in the northeast. He was working 3-4 grades ahead and HPID was outstanding to him- he was probably the first, if not one of the first, who truly had special learning needs in a particular area. He was not, however, in TAG. That's what I mean when I say Explorarions probably isn't the answer for you (because it is focused on meeting the learning needs of what sounds possibly like a different kind of student than your kid) except for the peer support & relationships that probably would be benefit your kid. It is a great program where the kids stimulate other kids instead of mainly teacher-led learning.

[Big G]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

I still think, regardless of whether kid gets into Explorations or not, you need to look into Singapore Math (what all the Plano ISD Asian families do) for math enrichment for your kid.

Actually, most of the Asians in Plano ISD have their kids enrolled in Saturday school for supplemental math instruction, as well as native language instruction. QD Academy is the big name, but there must be a dozen or more other options as well. Each school has an alpha-dog director who sets the direction for the school, and usually generates the curriculum in-house, rather than using something off-the-shelf. Singapore Math is more for those working independently.

Now, there certainly may be those that also supplement at home with something like Singapore Math. But most of the Asians rely on Saturday school so they don't have to spend their own time supplementing - exactly what the OP would like to avoid, as well.

I think that is what you are looking for, not necessarily Explorations- which is NOT a "math heavy" program AT ALL. Yes, math is part of the curriculum but not in a constant tracking with grade above. Since it's a pull-out program and not an immersion program, t wouldn't be possible to complete the entire grade above curriculums in various subjects, let alone math.

Per the HPISD site, the G/T program runs two separate pull-outs - one for math (advanced one grade, as the OP stated - this is different than just being in honors math), and one for Explorations. Presumably, you could qualify for these independently of each other.

Once you hit the middle school, kids who are ready for algebra a year early (7th vs 8th) do get bumped up and that follows through high school ending with AP Calculus the senior year (which regular grade level kids don't take).

I think your math is off. (Ha! I kill me!)

Accelerating into 7th grade algebra would put you in AP Calculus in 11th grade, leaving 12th grade for AP Stats, AP Comp Sci, 3-D Calc, or something else off-campus.

Your bog standard honors sequence would be enough to put you in Calculus by senior year. It's only those not even in the honors sequence (and who are not taking Algebra I until 9th grade) that don't have a chance to reach calculus in HS.

[TX75007]

Here is some info on what gifted is.

Hoagies' Gifted: Identification of Gifted Children

Ruf is the most commonly quoted and its the easiest for parents to understand.

Ruf Estimates

Most gifted kids are in her level I and II. Ie, 95% of them are. The others are very rare, even at the top schools.

The kid TC80 alluded to was somewhere between 4 and 5. They are very rare.

There are two types of tests. One is the achievement test. it measures knowledge of facts. The other kind of test is the intelligence test. It measures the ability to perceive and reason.

The Standford and OLSAT are achievement tests. A kid can be prepped for them and can do reasonably well. A Level I/II kid with great parents and a good school should do well. A Level 4 or 5 kid with the same kind of prep will miss just a few questions but only because they did not know something arcane, ie what a parellogram was. But even a level 5 kid with poor parents and little prep will fall in the middle of the pack because it is about facts.

The IQ tests can be prepped for because some parents will steal copies of the tests and drill their kids. This does occur. The tester can detect this and give another test. The IQ tests will detect high IQ kids from poor circumstances. If tests are given early enough, these kids can be found and put in the right schools so they can escape the prison of their upbringing.

In general, level 3,4, and 5 kids will be bored at grade level tasks by they time they are 3. They are capable of learning 2-6 grades ahead by the time they enter first grade. Most of the kids who act out and are disruptive in school are these kids. One poster alluded to these as the ones who did get into gifted programs while the goodie-goodies did not.

[TX75007]

Originally Posted by Big G

Accelerating into 7th grade algebra would put you in AP Calculus in 11th grade, leaving 12th grade for AP Stats, AP Comp Sci, 3-D Calc, or something else off-campus.

Your bog standard honors sequence would be enough to put you in Calculus by senior year. It's only those not even in the honors sequence (and who are not taking Algebra I until 9th grade) that don't have a chance to reach calculus in HS.

In general, a gifted mathy kid should finish Calculus in the 9th grade, then progress through Abstract Algebra and Analysis by the 11th. Their science courses should mirror this sequence with Quantum Mechanics taught in the 11th grade as well.

[Big G]

Originally Posted by TX75007

In general, a gifted mathy kid should finish Calculus in the 9th grade, then progress through Abstract Algebra and Analysis by the 11th. Their science courses should mirror this sequence with Quantum Mechanics taught in the 11th grade as well.

Art of Problem Solving would disagree with you. But I think we've had this conversation before.



The Calculus Trap

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by Big G

-

I think your math is off. (Ha! I kill me!)

Accelerating into 7th grade algebra would put you in AP Calculus in 11th grade, leaving 12th grade for AP Stats, AP Comp Sci, 3-D Calc, or something else off-campus.

Sorry, you're correct! It's "pre-Algebra" in 7th that starts the grade-up math sequence, culminating with Calculus in grade 12.

[Big G]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

Sorry, you're correct! It's "pre-Algebra" in 7th that starts the grade-up math sequence, culminating with Calculus in grade 12.

I'm pretty sure that's not correct, either. Otherwise, if the "grade-up" sequence only gets you to Calculus by 12th grade, why would HPISD be offering 3-D Calc and Linear Algebra in its catalog?

IMO, you're describing the "normal" honors sequence, not the "grade-up" sequence. The "normal" honors sequence is Algebra I in 8th grade, Geometry in 9th grade, Algebra II in 10th grade, Pre-Calc in 11th grade, and Calc in 12th grade. Since everyone in HP is above average, , this is what the majority of HPISD kids would follow.

The "grade-up" sequence takes the honors sequence and shifts it forward one year. Thus, it has actual Algebra in 7th grade, not pre-Algebra. This path is charted on the far right of the HPISD catalog's math flowchart. That's a standard offering, but, as in the case of your classmate, the district can advance that path additional years for individual prodigies on a case-by-case basis.

[pepper131]

It sounds like math is really all your are concerned about - you might consider SEM when you reach high school.

At Science and Engineering Magnet, kids in 9th grade take PAP Algebra 2 first semester (A and B days), PAP Pre Cal second semester (A and B days) and PAP Geometry throughout the year on either an A or B day.

AP Cal AB is taken in 10th grade.

AP Cal BC in 11th grade. Here many kids take AP Chem and AP Physics B and their corresponding labs - it's called Super Class...strong math background preps them for the work.

In 12th grade - AP Stats, AP Physics C, Intro to Nuclear Engineering, Adv Bio Research, etc.

Plus there is Comp Sci, Environ Sci, Engineering, Astronomy.

In addition, though, I think an element is often missing. STEM to STEAM