Whole foods in Dayton? (Cleveland, Kettering: hotel, tenant, colleges)

[Lucy Striker]

A entire city isn't fit to have a grocery? Simple?

That's hardly what I'd call the matter (beside already pointing out the obvious; thanks to the folks who agree!). Perhaps one day Dayton and many of its residents will understand and demand true city planning, which comes from a groundswell of intersecting efforts (of which the city and it's elected officials are indeed a part!). Until then, c'est la vie. Keep handing over the gas money.

xoxo,
L

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

No, it's not the city's job to put a grocery store in downtown Dayton.

Originally Posted by Lucy Striker

A entire city isn't fit to have a grocery? Simple?

Pay attention, I never said that. When you understand site selection then get back to me and we can have an intelligent conversation.

[SWOH]

Ok, I'm back. My homework is awful... math and science are not my thing, but I'm doing them at Sinclair for a reason haha.


Anyways, grocery site selection... I think Downtown could support a more significant grocery establishment than what we have now (Stop-N-Save and CVS). Dirt cheap retail rental prices helps too.

But I don't think the big chains will consider Dayton. The city does not have the name recognition to land within their consideration set. And that's not a bad thing - it opens the door for a more nimble smaller player to come here, like Constantino's (or an ethnic grocer).

Anyways, if anyone out there has $1 mil in net worth, $300k in liquid assets, and wants a career change, a Save-A-Lot franchise would fit the bill well downtown. I'd do it myself if I had a million bucks or was better at pitching ideas to venture capitalists haha.

Here's the site requirements: Site Requirements | Save-A-Lot
(tip: Centre City Plaza's ground floor fits these requirements nicely AND it's right next to the bus station, a huge client base).

Here's the retailer requirements: Retailer Requirements | Save-A-Lot

Business Model: http://save-a-lot.com/own/about-save...business-model

Estimated Investment: http://save-a-lot.com/own/requiremen...ted-investment

Sample Store Plan (keep in mind Centre City has an attached parking garage): http://save-a-lot.com/own/requiremen...ple-store-plan

And here's the steps in the process: The Process | Save-A-Lot



... maybe there will be a taker???

[Lucy Striker]

When you understand that a "city" is made up of elected officials that are supposed to advocate for the people who live there (and that blind spouting of Capitalist b0ll0cks is why cities like Dayton are failing), that would do the conversation a wealth of good as well.

Settle down now. It's just a conversation about a grocery.

xoxo,
L

PS: Thanks for all the

[Ohioan58]

Blind spouting of capitalist bullocks? Businesses have agendas and rationales, and part of their reasoning process for selecting a site include: demographics, staffing of the unit, traffic flow, crime rates, foot traffic, etc. In other words, they don't make money by losing money just to be good citizens of the community and even if they make money from a location they won't locate some place that is a PITA to manage and keep runnng.

Capitalism does suck in one way: it's utterly reductionist when it comes to investing in down-on-their-luck areas. If the entire business community writes off an area, there is no way to bootstrap it within a capitalist framework, aside from someone who pioneers.

By that token Dayton doesn't deserve any investment and should just rot. That's reductionism.

Someone will have to pioneer this. Now, what are the elected officials supposed to do? Dayton doesn't have a pot to p**s in, last I heard. Dayton does NOT harbor a pioneer culture. It's more like "derp derp shut up and don't bother us."

And IMO... Sav-A-Lot stores are VERRRY downscale. The one in Lebanon is a dump and the one in Franklin is meh. Aldi is classier.

[SWOH]

^If it's done right it will be fine.

The effort to make it "upscale" or "downscale" is based on local demographics and the franchisee. Both Franklin and Lebanon's Save-A-Lot stores are probably supported by a less affluent demographic than the Wal-Mart or Kroger. Downtown, a Save-A-Lot would have to target people who want a higher-end experience too.

Worst case scenario, it becomes the staple store for poorer people riding the bus who need groceries. Either way, I don't see how Dayton (or the franchisee) could lose.

[Dayton Sux]

Interesting because it has 240,000 sq. ft., is Class B office space, and is only 5% occupied! They don't list the asking price (maybe it is too high?), but it seems like buying this property and converting it is a no-brainer. Instead, people are demolishing buildings to build student dorms right across the street! Maybe they got good tax credits, but 40 W. 4th seems like it would have been a lot easier option...

This used to be called the Miami Valley Tower, and before that the Grant-Deneau Tower. It was the tallest building in Dayton during the 1960s.

The "Grant" in this case was the same famly that owned Normandy Farm in Centerville...old GM money (the Grant who founded the fortune was the national brand manager for Chevrolet, and commuted by train btw. Dayton and Detroit). So this was probably one of their last big investments in Dayton. Ironically yet more old GM money built the Kettering Tower (tho this was masked by it being called the Winters Tower for many years), which displaced Grant-Deneau as the tallest building in the city. One upsmanship between Viriginia Kettering and the Grants?

Just a historc aside, and showing how much has been lost, in terms of locally interested investors in the city, and the money to make things happen.

@@@@

Back to your regularly scheduled program (back on topic)

@@@@


The "tear down and build free parking" concept is the suburban solution to downtown Dayton....clear out the vacant stuff and shabby low rise fuzz, leaving a select few buildings surrounded by rationalized and landscaped free parking. Turn downtown into an office park. That's what this plan sounds like.

The alternative would be that residential conversion approach. Ideal from a historic presevation POV, but how reaslitic economically? The cost to do this would have to be covered by rentals or condo sales, which will be high as the adaptive re-use costs are high. Which is why ...perhaps... they ddnt save the Schwind (aka Moraine Hotel) buidling next to the DDN site. Tho I would have THOUGHT that this would have been DO-ABLE since it used to be APARTMENTS! Duh!

I give up.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by OHKID

Anyways, grocery site selection... I think Downtown could support a more significant grocery establishment than what we have now (Stop-N-Save and CVS). Dirt cheap retail rental prices helps too.

I agree. That's why I was excited about Constantino's potential investment. Is that deal dead in the water? or still in the works?

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Lucy Striker

(and that blind spouting of Capitalist b0ll0cks is why cities like Dayton are failing)

Some of the main reasons Dayton is failing are:

• Manufacturing town, but all of the big manufacturers have left.
• People migrated to Dayton for jobs, jobs left, so did a lot of people
• Dayton lacks the ability to attract and retain new businesses/residents
• Dayton has the highest office vacancy rate in the country of any downtown area - we even beat Detroit
• As the city shrank, city government and services remained the same size (approximately)
• High income tax rate - companies just move to the suburbs where business costs are cheaper
• Inefficient city leadership
• Unfriendly zoning rules and enforcement.

I could continue.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Dayton Sux

The alternative would be that residential conversion approach. Ideal from a historic presevation POV, but how reaslitic economically?

Something to consider is how many office buildings in downtown Dayton would be considered historic. Old does not necessarily equate to historic, as you know. Perhaps the solution lies somewhere in the middle. Demolish some, upgrade some, convert some to residential. It's a tough problem that city leadership is inept to tackle. We will see what the business community will do with DDDCD.