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Old 06-14-2015, 01:20 PM
 
Location: The analog world
15,882 posts, read 8,840,647 times
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Even if it was pristine, a two-bedroom, century-old tract house in an appallingly bad school district isn't likely to pull in folks who could stabilize the neighborhood. The house should be bull-dozed. To be frank, I wouldn't even have considered buying the gorgeous Arts & Crafts home on Epworth with the interior that made me drool. Where the heck would I send my kids to school? Belmont High School is a disaster. The whole school district is a disaster. No, thank you. Dayton needs families with resources, and families with resources are going to the burbs, where there are good schools, decent housing stock, and accessible shopping.

Last edited by randomparent; 06-14-2015 at 01:44 PM..
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:54 PM
 
1,842 posts, read 1,379,442 times
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Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
... appallingly bad school district isn't likely to pull in folks ... Where the heck would I send my kids to school?
You would have to have the resources to pay an extra $10k to bus your kids to Miami Valley School. ( It might not even be that "inexpensive" any more. )

Got two or three kids? You better have a high-ranking job with the city.
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:58 PM
 
Location: The analog world
15,882 posts, read 8,840,647 times
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Tuition at MVS is closer to $20k per year today, and nobody in their right mind would do that anyway. That's the problem. For those Dayton neighborhoods to recover, they must appeal to the families with school-age children who have been fleeing to the suburbs for going on fifty years now. Dayton just doesn't have the infrastructure to do it. Some niche neighborhoods are doing reasonably well with the child-free professionals, but for the entire city to recover, it needs middle-class families, and they decamped decades ago. Why would they come back? The most important thing on any parent's mind when choosing a home is schools, and Dayton cannot hold a candle to what's available in the suburbs. Add in the fact that the property tax rates are outrageous for lackluster services, a situation made all the worse by the exodus of the corporate citizens that once made Dayton great, and I just don't see a recovery any time in the near future. Sorry to be such a downer. I'm as heart-broken about it as the next person. It was a great place to grow up, but every time at go back to visit I'm just appalled at the city's decline.

Last edited by randomparent; 06-14-2015 at 03:23 PM..
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:31 PM
 
3,515 posts, read 3,795,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Tuition at MVS is closer to $20k per year today, and nobody in their right mind would do that anyway. That's the problem. For those Dayton neighborhoods to recover, they must appeal to the families with school-age children who have been fleeing to the suburbs for going on fifty years now. Dayton just doesn't have the infrastructure to do it. Some niche neighborhoods are doing reasonably well with the child-free professionals, but for the entire city to recover, it needs middle-class families, and they decamped decades ago. Why would they come back? The most important thing on any parent's mind when choosing a home is schools, and Dayton cannot hold a candle to what's available in the suburbs. Add in the fact that the property tax rates are outrageous for lackluster services, a situation made all the worse by the exodus of the corporate citizens that once made Dayton great, and I just don't see a recovery any time in the near future. Sorry to be such a downer. I'm as heart-broken about it as the next person. It was a great place to grow up, but every time at go back to visit I'm just appalled at the city's decline.
And Dayton will never be like it was back in the 1970's or earlier.

But that's not a bad thing. It's progressively being built into a better city as people reimagine ways to use the current land and houses. That's why I always get peeved off when people think demolition is the holy grail of urban revitalization - it's not.

All property has value. The key is to realize what the value of the property is and then capitalize on it. I can scarcely think of anyplace within city limits that is more valuable as a vacant lot than with a house on it, unless the house is already burned out or has structural damage beyond its worth plus demo costs.

The real issue is with idiots who think they can just let their house rot and then flip it for the same value which they paid for it. Same class of morons as you'd see in the movie Idiocracy. Basically the people which are a disgrace to society and need a swift kick in the rear. Because anyone who is enough of a slob to not maintain their heritage of their family is an enemy of mine.



That being said, a lot of people with a lot of initiative and drive are making Dayton neighborhoods, including Belmont, great. You may not get Mayberry back, but keep in mind you won't be getting the narrow mindedness and conservatism that would come with such a place either. Instead what you will have is an environment accepting of all people of all different kinds of income, if done right. It's possible. And it's happening - look at today's Oregon District, Kettering, or even the entire Northmont School District if you want just a ew local examples of how diversity works to create a better community.


To put it simply, you're viewing a different community, and if you want Belmont circa 1950 to suddenly show up then I advise you to stay wherever you are now and not come back.
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Old 06-15-2015, 09:10 PM
 
Location: The analog world
15,882 posts, read 8,840,647 times
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Oh, I remember the bigotry. I had a front row seat for it, and I wouldn't want it back. But the Historic Inner East is just a shell of a once thriving community, which saddens me, because generations of my German-Dutch-Jewish family lived there. If I'm a little wistful, I hope you can find it in your heart to understand. Nothing would make me happier than to see Dayton's current residents succeed in putting the city on the path to greatness again.
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Old 06-16-2015, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Beavercreek, OH
2,194 posts, read 3,021,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWOH View Post
All property has value. The key is to realize what the value of the property is and then capitalize on it. I can scarcely think of anyplace within city limits that is more valuable as a vacant lot than with a house on it, unless the house is already burned out or has structural damage beyond its worth plus demo costs.

The real issue is with idiots who think they can just let their house rot and then flip it for the same value which they paid for it. Same class of morons as you'd see in the movie Idiocracy. Basically the people which are a disgrace to society and need a swift kick in the rear. Because anyone who is enough of a slob to not maintain their heritage of their family is an enemy of mine.

That being said, a lot of people with a lot of initiative and drive are making Dayton neighborhoods, including Belmont, great. You may not get Mayberry back, but keep in mind you won't be getting the narrow mindedness and conservatism that would come with such a place either. Instead what you will have is an environment accepting of all people of all different kinds of income, if done right. It's possible. And it's happening - look at today's Oregon District, Kettering, or even the entire Northmont School District if you want just a ew local examples of how diversity works to create a better community.


To put it simply, you're viewing a different community, and if you want Belmont circa 1950 to suddenly show up then I advise you to stay wherever you are now and not come back.
The unfortunate answer is demolition in wide areas of the city because as you point out, in many areas the cost of demolition and/or back taxes exceed the value of the structure. It doesn't take a lot of time to make a structure worthless - break a window and start stripping out all the copper wiring and in two days you've caused $10,000 worth of damage.

The majority of people I've met who live in the ghetto aren't deliberately careless about their houses, whether they own or rent. In most cases, they simply don't have the money to do the repair it correctly... resulting in halfassed redneck repairs or no repairs at all. So I may take exception to your "Idiocracy" comment... the jobs in most cases simply aren't there to support anything beyond a barebones existence. Even when houses are inherited from family members, the new owners don't make enough money to maintain them...

The Oregon District is almost exclusively professionals. I forget who posted it, but it was back about 30 years ago when WPAFB opened a bunch of entry-level engineer's jobs that paid well unlike most other jobs in the city.... Most of them ended up clustering in that one area, restoring the houses and building some sense of community before the city got on board and turned it into a strip of bars. While there may be diversity of race (I don't think there is much.... most "diversity" you see rode in on the transit line...) but there is little diversity of economics. If you live in the Oregon District, you make good money. US 35 makes a really good boundary.... good boundaries make good neighbors. A house on the north side of US 35 is worth three times as much as a house on the south side (in South Park or Twin Towers).

Kettering is 92.6% white. So, little racial diversity, but lots of economic diversity. Not sure which one you're using to define "diversity" so we may be on the same page?

Northmont School District... if you're talking about Englewood then yes it currently has a good school district with increasing racial diversity (as the dessication that has bombed out Thotwood spills further out to the north and west into Englewood)... But I have serious doubts about the long term viability of that city and its' school district for that reason. Similar to the Dayton Mall area, I view it as a declining area. It may be highly regarded now, but it's undoubtedly going down.

If that was a reference to Northridge High School however... get off this page, cause that's in the Dayton school district, and I need to not speak any further on the matter
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Old 06-16-2015, 08:54 PM
 
3,515 posts, read 3,795,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
The majority of people I've met who live in the ghetto aren't deliberately careless about their houses, whether they own or rent. In most cases, they simply don't have the money to do the repair it correctly... resulting in halfassed redneck repairs or no repairs at all. So I may take exception to your "Idiocracy" comment... the jobs in most cases simply aren't there to support anything beyond a barebones existence. Even when houses are inherited from family members, the new owners don't make enough money to maintain them...
I understand... but a lot of it is mis-education too.

People need to be aware of how to do basic home maintenance and keep their property clean. A lot of issues start when people just live in a place and never do check ups on it, neglect repairs, and let things go. Sure it's easy in the short run, but maintenance work grows exponentially as it is left untreated over time.

That's why in a lot of cases repairs would have been well within their means if they would have caught the issue early. But they overlook it or ignore it and the problem spirals. Scary stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
The Oregon District is almost exclusively professionals. I forget who posted it, but it was back about 30 years ago when WPAFB opened a bunch of entry-level engineer's jobs that paid well unlike most other jobs in the city.... Most of them ended up clustering in that one area, restoring the houses and building some sense of community before the city got on board and turned it into a strip of bars. While there may be diversity of race (I don't think there is much.... most "diversity" you see rode in on the transit line...) but there is little diversity of economics. If you live in the Oregon District, you make good money. US 35 makes a really good boundary.... good boundaries make good neighbors. A house on the north side of US 35 is worth three times as much as a house on the south side (in South Park or Twin Towers).
I guess.... but South Park is certainly turning around, if it's not already there. It will be hard for it to get to OD level home prices of $300k+ (the nature of the neighborhood really doesn't lend itself to that) but homes selling for over $100k is the norm, something that wasn't true 5-10 years ago and certainly isn't true in most other neighborhoods like Twin Towers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Kettering is 92.6% white. So, little racial diversity, but lots of economic diversity. Not sure which one you're using to define "diversity" so we may be on the same page?
Ah. Yes I didn't clarify. I was assuming both, but that may not be everyone's ideal definition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hensleya1 View Post
Northmont School District... if you're talking about Englewood then yes it currently has a good school district with increasing racial diversity (as the dessication that has bombed out Thotwood spills further out to the north and west into Englewood)... But I have serious doubts about the long term viability of that city and its' school district for that reason. Similar to the Dayton Mall area, I view it as a declining area. It may be highly regarded now, but it's undoubtedly going down.

If that was a reference to Northridge High School however... get off this page, cause that's in the Dayton school district, and I need to not speak any further on the matter
I'll agree to disagree on the trajectory of Northmont... if only because Brookville is a dismal alternative and West Milton Schools are far worse than Northmont and have shown no signs of turning around.

But yes I was referring to Northmont, in particular places like Englewood and Clayton that have sizable AA populations.

As for Dayton Mall, we will see, but I will say a lot of what happens there will probably be tied to local perceptions of West Carrollton, Miamisburg, and Miami Twp.

Agreed with you on Northridge though. It will be a challenge for Harrison Twp to do anything to pull it away from its current struggles and away from continuing down the same path. Unless Harrison Twp. merges with Dayton, but that's a whole different can of worms....
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Covington, KY
1,879 posts, read 2,128,101 times
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We Made National News is the perfect place for this:

Road Trip: Dayton - Cincinnati Magazine
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:57 AM
 
1,328 posts, read 1,048,330 times
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These 2 links are kind of a strech for this thread, but still nice news for Dayton.

Dayton Flyers basketball recognized by NCAA for being in top 25 in attendance - Dayton Business Journal

Magazine: Fifth Third Field among top 5 U.S. ballparks - Dayton Business Journal
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Old 07-12-2015, 02:22 PM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,764,994 times
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This is cute (from Carpathian Peasants link):

"...a totally endearing acceptance of all that is offbeat."


This should be the new travel slogan!

DAYTON...a totally endearing acceptance of all that is offbeat.
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