So about Joe Biden (cabinet, vs, cabin)

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by rossc

I won't vote for anyone because I feel sorry for him. Being a POW does not qualify a man to be president by default. His war record is commendable, but that doesn't change the fact that he has more times than not voted with GWB on key issues. It's only slander if it's not true. Look how he is back peddling on his economic statements after last Mondays Wall St fiasco. The presidential debate will be interesting.

did it ever occur to you that when someone votes for something there are many factors to consider...yes, he has voted with GWB, wouldn't it be interesting to see what those bills looked like when they started and what they looked like when they were finished? as for being a war hero not qualifying him to be Prez, you are right, but what qualities the other side?

For those who think Obama has such great ideas? Other than playing Robinhood, give me a couple of examples? As for the bailout issues this past week, and the mess we are in, no one in their right mind should be blaming it all on one party or the other, that is nosense, there is enough blame to go around. I hate the bailout plan, I have the government running the companies and I hate socialism, but in this case, there appears to be no other answer. Much of this started when the housing market, mainly in Fl and Calif went totally crazy. Buying overpriced property with no money down and bad credit could only spell one word: disaster!!!!!

[Joe84323]

No doubt McCain would do better than Bush, but I just can't trust him anymore now that he sold out to try to get elected, especially since the whole Palin bs.

Obama doesn't have the experience, but Biden does. Whether he listens to Biden, who knows, but the only reliable experience is with Biden. McCain would have been decent until he started yielding to everything red. He's really let me down.

[elizamary]

Originally Posted by Joe84323

No doubt McCain would do better than Bush, but I just can't trust him anymore now that he sold out to try to get elected, especially since the whole Palin bs.

Obama doesn't have the experience, but Biden does. Whether he listens to Biden, who knows, but the only reliable experience is with Biden. McCain would have been decent until he started yielding to everything red. He's really let me down.

My feeling exactly about McCain.

And

Obama Doesn't have the experience but he's a smart man with common sense. He will pick his cabinet the way he picked his Veep. Anyway so much for experience. Look at bush!!! He's supposed to be exerienced and look at where we are after almost 8 years.
One thing......Biden is great with foreign affairs that we are in desparate need of diplomacy.

[Merlander]

Agreed with all the comments about needing more moderates. We as moderate Americans, both Republican and Democrat, need to find a way to mitigate the effects of the 5% of crazies on either end.

Ironically, both McCain and Obama are moderates, despite what the talking heads at the ends of the spectrum claim. Unfortunately the folks with the extreme views get their claws into our candidates, each and every election cycle.

Btw I am not in favor of bailouts in general, especially to the extent it is being done now. But on the other hand, I don't believe that laissez faire capitalism constitutes an example of "moderate" position. There is no subsitute for good regulation, provided we also have well-informed and law-abiding public officials.

[Merlander]

Originally Posted by jskirwin

The website URL="http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html"]OpenSecrets [/url]lists congressmen who received contributions from Fannie and Freddie.

Dodd was #1. Who was number 2?

Barack Obama.

Mccain? He was #62.

Point taken, but don't make McCain out to be a saint.

His chief economic advisor, Phil Gramm, wrote the rider that removed proper regulation of Collateral Debt Obligations, or CDO's, which are @ the heart of this current mess.

Also, don't forget that McCain was one of the "Keating 5', the group responsible for the worst of the S&L crisis back in the early 90's.

[jskirwin]

Tim
I haven't, but Obama is trying to pin the blame for the current trouble on McCain, and McCain called for increased regulation of Fannie & Freddie 2 years ago. If he wants to point fingers, he needs to have a chat with Chris Dodd (and himself for that matter).

As for Obama being a moderate, he's the most liberal member of the Senate - not just the Democrats. Edwards is a moderate. Clinton is a moderate. As a moderate/liberal Republican myself I could live with either of them in the White House. But Obama is not a moderate.

But what troubles me most about Obama is his lack of inexperience and meteoric ascent. I'm deeply troubled by the cult of personality that has been constructed around him. It reminds me alot of Ronald Reagan - but at least Reagan had actual executive experience.

Obama lacks that, and has some seriously questionable people around him including Zbigniew Brzezinski who was conducting shadow diplomacy in Syria back in Feb. As a friend of Israel I'm not big on ZB; and that's just one of Obama's advisors I have serious doubts about.

[rossc]

Obama is experienced enough to know there is an economic crisis. McCain seems to think the economy is "fundamentally sound". When I heard that statement on TV I almost thought it was a SNL spoof. If he really believes that, he is (1) grossly incompetent or (2) telling us what he thinks we want to hear. Either way, that's not someone I would vote for.

[Older&Wiser]

Some proven facts:

!) The most liberal senator of the 100 is Mr. Obama

2) The third most liberal is Mr. Biden; so much for moderates

[Joe84323]

After the past 8 years, you say liberal like it's a bad thing.

From the track record of the past 8 conservative years, the word liberal is one of the most beautiful sounds I've heard.

If you make over $250k a year, and complain about taxes, you are greedy, which isn't so Christian, now is it?

That's what I don't understand... bible this bible that, then greed and war.. go figure.

After 9 years of Catholic school, I was taught to be selfless, not selfish. Give, not take. Was our bible that different from the bible read by the bible belt red states?

I'm for total separation of Church and State, but those who want everything so theocratic are so hypocritical it makes me sick.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by jskirwin

I agree 100% with you. I'll echo what Kentucky Senator Jim Bunning said: "When I picked up my newspaper yesterday, I thought I woke up in France. But no, it turned out it was socialism here in the United States.''

Where we disagree is on who is to blame. I argue that blame resides with both parties, starting with Banking Chair Chris "Friend of Angelo" Dodd.
Way back on May 25, 2006 John McCain said this:

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

The bill never made it out of committee - Chris Dodd's committee.

The website OpenSecrets lists congressmen who received contributions from Fannie and Freddie.

Dodd was #1. Who was number 2?

Barack Obama.

Mccain? He was #62.

As I said, there is plenty of blame to go around for the meltdown and those responsible must be held accountable.

But don't pin a crime on an innocent man, and don't allow the guilty to go scot-free.

I am not from Delaware, so won't comment on the original question posed by the OP, but this is one of the best posts I have seen on any of the political threads, well researched and backed up by telling statistics. Too much rhetoric without true records being brought up on both sides of this debate.

Thanks jskirwin, wish I could give you more than the alloted reps!