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Quite obviously it was not as bad; no major city has fallen into disrepair and dispair as has Detroit and Metro Detroit (I'm not conned into believing those leafy Oakland burbs like Birmingham or that bustling "downtown" in Royal Oak aren't just as dysfunctional in their own ways as the Mother City... they just look prettier). Your not going to find a perfect analogy to Denver as each city is different with their own unique set of problems; and the Politico piece notes that, even in it's 114-mile girth, Denver's new rail system is not without its flaws -- from its initial (Ummagumma) approach that rail transit is strictly to beat traffic jams to its more recent, healthy paradigm shift (towards spawning high-density Smart Growth near its 77 rail st-ations.
There is no magic bullet, even for Denver itself, but there's no getting around the fact that Denver, in its regionally cooperative All-In approach toward developing mass transit out of nothing in a car-centric, sprawling metro city like Detroit, is on a much healthier path than Motown in its sit-on-our-hands scoff at transit mindset that has gripped SE Michigan for way too long.
What I am trying to say is that you have a patient with cancer and you are proposing to fix his overbite.
You might be shocked to hear me say this, but the issue is not just black/white city/suburb. What has saved the population of many large urban areas, particularly in the North, is immigrants. If Detroit attracted immigrants like NY, LA, Chicago, Boston, San Fran and most other metros......it would be less distressed or abandoned. Immigrants usually flow to places with strong job growth and SE Michigan's economy has been relatively week when compared to most other metro areas. Hispanics are 14 or 15% of the US population but they are lagging in the Metro area and city. Same with Asians. Metro Detroit needs to become more diverse, as well as the city.
What I am trying to say is that you have a patient with cancer and you are proposing to fix his overbite.
Fight cancer first.
Why wait? As Denver and any other transit city shows is that these transit networks take decades to build; even longer when you consider the groundwork political and organizational structure needed to be put in place first (which is what the RTA vote is all about). The key is to put the thing in motion. Detroit obviously should, and on some small levels, is, trying to fix its multitude of other problems. But the City can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Why wait? As Denver and any other transit city shows is that these transit networks take decades to build; even longer when you consider the groundwork political and organizational structure needed to be put in place first (which is what the RTA vote is all about). The key is to put the thing in motion. Detroit obviously should, and on some small levels, is, trying to fix its multitude of other problems. But the City can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Obviously, the City and the whole area doesn't have the money for RTA, which is why it's asking the (overwhelmingly suburban) homeowners to have their taxes raised to pay for it.
And if we're being asked to pay more taxes, I want to see this money going to the highest priority goals.
Right now, from my perspective, the highest priority for most suburbs are roads, and for the City, fighting crime and blight.
So if they asked for the money to fix the roads faster, I'd vote yes.
If they asked for the money to hire more cops, along with a sound plan to make sure that they actually actively patrol the streets in borderline neighborhoods where this could make a difference, I'd likely vote yes.
If they asked for the money to clean up and rebuild a swath of the city, I would probably vote yes.. if the plan made sense.
RTA ? Not until these issues have seen some progress.
Of course the problem is, when the people who don't own homes get to vote on raising homeowners' taxes, any proposal looks just great to them. So you may still get your shiny toy.
Obviously, the City and the whole area doesn't have the money for RTA, which is why it's asking the (overwhelmingly suburban) homeowners to have their taxes raised to pay for it.
And if we're being asked to pay more taxes, I want to see this money going to the highest priority goals.
Right now, from my perspective, the highest priority for most suburbs are roads, and for the City, fighting crime and blight.
So if they asked for the money to fix the roads faster, I'd vote yes.
If they asked for the money to hire more cops, along with a sound plan to make sure that they actually actively patrol the streets in borderline neighborhoods where this could make a difference, I'd likely vote yes.
If they asked for the money to clean up and rebuild a swath of the city, I would probably vote yes.. if the plan made sense.
RTA ? Not until these issues have seen some progress.
Of course the problem is, when the people who don't own homes get to vote on raising homeowners' taxes, any proposal looks just great to them. So you may still get your shiny toy.
But it can be argued that approving the RTA does help combat the city's major issues to an extent. Improved transit means expanded and more reliable access to jobs outside the city, which is where the majority of jobs are located. More citizens in the city working is more tax revenue for the city. It could also help crime drop because there aren't as many people in bad situations. There would also be less reliance on welfare and other social services.
But it can be argued that approving the RTA does help combat the city's major issues to an extent. Improved transit means expanded and more reliable access to jobs outside the city, which is where the majority of jobs are located. More citizens in the city working is more tax revenue for the city. It could also help crime drop because there aren't as many people in bad situations. There would also be less reliance on welfare and other social services.
1) I would like to see the statistics showing that the majority of Detroit unemployed residents can't get employment because of the lack of public transportation. Because the few I know have no problem using the existing bus system.
2) People who deal or use drugs, hijack motorists, break into homes, are gang members etc. are not going to be reformed because there's now a better transportation alternative available to them. Most of them either already have cars (and often nice ones) or can't drive or hold a job for reasons other than the lack of transportation.
3) When you're dealing with a desperate situation and have limited resources, you apply them where they can have an immediate, direct impact. A squad car with cops that actually and proactively patrol the streets will have more immediate impact than a new bus. Getting rid of abandoned properties will have more impact. Fight crime first. Then blight. The time for transportation will come.
4) SMART website offers real time wait time information for bus stops. Just by randomly clicking I can see that on the average it's under 20 min, as of this time. I think the longest I found was 17 Min. Given that this is not the primary mode of transportation for the vast majority of people, I'd say it's pretty darn good. In Europe, with cities that heavily rely on public transport, it's 5-10 minutes at least. Now it does take an ungodly amount of time to travel on that bus, because it stops at every fire hydrant. Perhaps they should dedicate some of them for express service. But I do think that there's a few better uses of $4 bln right now you want to fix Detroit.
1) I would like to see the statistics showing that the majority of Detroit unemployed residents can't get employment because of the lack of public transportation. Because the few I know have no problem using the existing bus system.
"More than 10,000 Detroit, Hamtramck and Highland Park residents travel daily to low-paying jobs in suburban communities that opted out of public transit, the Data Driven Detroit analysis found. So the workers drive. Or patch together multiple-mode commutes. Or they hoof it."
So the problem is not getting from Detroit to the suburbs. It's getting around inside the suburbs, not something that RTA is going to help much with.
Second, only a fraction of these people don't have a car. Let's say a quarter - given the realities of life in Metro area. Are we going to spend $4 billion and increase taxes on almost four million people to help 2,500 people get a little bit closer to their jobs ? Even 5,000 ? We could buy each one of them a shiny new car for 2% of that amount.
This argument simply doesn't hold water. Whatever the real reasons for RTA, they are not to provide transportation to a few thousand people who are so poor they can't even afford a car.
There's not been a single sound argument why RTA must be the highest priority justifying raising property taxes for every homeowner at this point. Why not use that money for fighting crime and demolishing blighted areas in Detroit, or fixing decaying infrastructure in the suburbs where the majority of taxpayers live, and why we should vote for increasing our tax burden to put this system in place while we're being told that our daily problems can't be addressed in the near future due to the lack of funding. The people pushing for it are basically telling us to shut up and pay up because we're idiots who don't know what's good for them, and that RTA will turn crime and drug infested areas into paradise on earth.
Last edited by Ummagumma; 09-16-2016 at 09:01 AM..
There's not been a single sound argument why RTA must be the highest priority justifying raising property taxes for every homeowner at this point. Why not use that money for fighting crime and demolishing blighted areas in Detroit, or fixing decaying infrastructure in the suburbs where the majority of taxpayers live, and why we should vote for increasing our tax burden to put this system in place while we're being told that our daily problems can't be addressed in the near future due to the lack of funding. The people pushing for it are basically telling us to shut up and pay up because we're idiots who don't know what's good for them, and that RTA will turn crime and drug infested areas into paradise on earth.
This is that catch-22 scenario. The metro area apparently doesn't have the money for basic maintenance of the region that already exists. Tax revenues are depleting as people flee the area or die off. The city doesn't have the tax revenue to build anything decent without tax hikes that the suburbanites don't want to foot.
There's not been a single sound argument why RTA must be the highest priority justifying raising property taxes for every homeowner at this point. Why not use that money for fighting crime and demolishing blighted areas in Detroit, or fixing decaying infrastructure in the suburbs where the majority of taxpayers live, and why we should vote for increasing our tax burden to put this system in place while we're being told that our daily problems can't be addressed in the near future due to the lack of funding. The people pushing for it are basically telling us to shut up and pay up because we're idiots who don't know what's good for them, and that RTA will turn crime and drug infested areas into paradise on earth.
Money (mostly federal) is already being spent to fight crime in the city and demolish buildings, no additional taxes needed:
Knocking down Detroit to revive it comes at a price | Reuters
" Duggan set a weekly demolition goal of 100 homes, which has Detroit destroying derelict properties at almost quadruple the pace of any other recipient of federal "blight-removal" dollars, federal records show."
ROADS are being addressed, albeit slowly, and quite possibly inadequately. Like I said in a previous post, a mile-long section of Joy Road in Detroit near me is being re-built. 9 Mile Road between Telegraph and Beech near my parents is being re-built. There are construction cones everywhere. Work is ongoing rebuild or repaving I-75 and I-275.
Now let's tackle transit.
Last edited by usroute10; 09-16-2016 at 04:04 PM..
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