A keen grasp of the Obvious.... (Detroit, Warren: high crime, credit, neighborhoods)

[Indentured Servant]

.....This is a great article! It hits the nail on the head and helps to explain what I have argued is the primary reason that the City of Detroit is so looked down upon. America is playing a mental game of denial with itself. The more things change....they more they remain the same.

The White City | Newgeography.com

[MTUCache]

Wow... that was quite an insightful article. I enjoyed that. Thank you for linking it.

More to the point at hand though, I think it points out some important (if also more subtle) things about our country and our culture as a whole.

Because different cultures of people have different aspirations, goals, and ideas of "progress", it's virtually impossible for a diverse group to please all of them. Even without looking at the economic influences, it may be fundamentally impossible to have a truly diverse city. The simple fact is that whites, latinos, blacks, etc, don't want the same things as eachother, and therefore don't want to live/work/intermix with eachother.

If a city is truly going to act progressively towards making improvements that it's main population wants (and seemingly embrace that populations ideas of progress), I think it's inevitable that the flight of the rest of the population will shortly follow. The only other option for the city is to continue to try and appease everyone, and remain stagnant.

Having never been to Portland, I'm now somewhat curious though as to the pulse of that city. I've never been much of a counter-culture, urban hipster, but I'm curious as to why such a narrow slice of the population should thrive so well, and whether that's at the expense of another portion or not.

Alternatively, at least in my own interpretation of the article, I feel as if there's an undertone which insinuates that any city (outside of NYC/Chi/LA) with a large minority population has little or no chance of being progressive or successful, and we might as well just go back to segregation. I hope I'm off-base here, but that was the impression I got.

This of course takes us back to the debate about why White Flight in Detroit is wrong/right.... is there something inherently wrong with wanting to live around people who are like you? Even if it creates economic dichotomy and racial tensions? Is there a way that you can encourage people to live in a diverse manner, or do you have to force it down their throats?

[Tiger Beer]

Great article. However the author is forgetting that there are TONS of white cities that absolutely SUCK and NEVER make these lists - Boise ID, Billings MT, Des Moines IA, Knoxville TN, Tampa FL, Phoeniz AZ, Salt Lake City UT, Reno NV, Tulsa OK, etc.

There are also black cities that do make tons of lists - Atlanta, Charlotte, Savannah, Charleston, New York, Chicago.

The real reason the OTHER 'black' cities like Memphis TN, etc. don't make the list, is they suck just as bad as the Tampa FL and the Phoenix AZ and such. Mostly because they all have backward policies.

I think this article would be better to ask why do SOME cities that don't have a lot of black people have such progressive policies? The majority of U.S. cities, regadless if inhabited by majority blacks or whites, just have backward policies, period.

Oddly enough, I've lived in Portland Oregon, Minneapolis, and NYC & SF and a few other places. I have no idea what makes Oregonians so much better at planning/structuring their city, but it's true. To say it is because they have a lack of black people is a stretch though. I suppose a person focused on race could try to make that argument and make a strong case for it. But I think it just discredits the people of Oregon in a rather unfair way.

[Indentured Servant]

Those cities you list likely are seen as sucking because they are too small to offer much excitement and entertainment and they are located in areas with few natural amenities. Progressive hip cities have to offer a lot of things to do for the young single and educated crowds. Large cities are attractive because they simply offer a ton of things to do and see. I think Atlanta and Charlotte are currently undergoing gentrification as the percentage of the population in Atlanta that is black is steadily falling, along with places like DC. Other cities like Chicago offer “Pockets” of progressiveness, as a result of segregated communities.


I think that it is true that it is easier to get things done the more homogenous the environment. The suburbs and city of Portland are pretty homogenous. You cannot have regional transportation in Detroit because a lot of people don’t want Detroiters to have easy access to their communities via public transportation.

[michiganirish]

Originally Posted by MTUCache

This of course takes us back to the debate about why White Flight in Detroit is wrong/right.... is there something inherently wrong with wanting to live around people who are like you? Even if it creates economic dichotomy and racial tensions? Is there a way that you can encourage people to live in a diverse manner, or do you have to force it down their throats?

I have often wondered this as well. Our ethnic neighborhoods grew from people coming here and settling around others that spoke their language, shared their customs, etc. Corktown being one of Detroit's earliest ethnic neighborhoods. If you look at this way it's not surprising as whites moved from Detroit other whites followed.

What is different about the black/white thing is that other cultures and ethnicities eventually intermingled, where the black culture and white culture haven't.

I believe we can "encourage" people to be more diverse but you certainly can't force them into it. Remember what busing did.

I grew up in Detroit (Warrendale area), my mother lived there until after my father's death, (and a double murder next door) she literally was the last white person on her street. She left because of safety reasons, not because her neighbors were black.

We can debate this until the cows come home. Are there "nice" neighborhoods in Detroit? Yes. Does Detroit have cultural offerings? Yes. Are there "good" people in Detroit? Most definately. However, Detroit has a bad reputation because it deserves it. A corrupt city government, a high crime rate, bad schools etc., etc.

My own personal opinion is that the reign of King Coleman did this city in, but that's another unending debate for another time.

There's nothing wrong with Detroit being a "black city". And as the adage goes, "If you build it they will come". Diversity in the population isn't as important to me as diversity in the offerings of the city itself, which is something Detroit has. Now the focus should be on doing away with the things that have give Detroit it's reputation. With that perhaps the population dynamics will eventually change as well.