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Old 03-27-2012, 08:59 AM
 
11 posts, read 62,319 times
Reputation: 19

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
Gladly,

We as people have an underlying inability to confront our true nature of possession and dominance. We pretend that we are a loving and nurturing speciec while all the time exerting dominence over everything we encounter. That dominence with our pets, derives from the most basic concept that we created the ability to own, possess, and dispose of our pets by the most simpest means possible and that is they are property, mere propertry just like a toaster or a car. This is who we are and what we are, a plain old fact of life.

My, such generalizations and stereotypes.

Now we are confronting a sort of morailty shift where we have certain animals we have domesticated and feel we need to protect. Of cousre the truth is we are not protecting the animnals from nature, we are protecting them from humans. In doing so we have elevated them to an alomost child like equality in our lives to provide some protections, YET, stop short if giving them freedoms.

Freedoms. I say we give the right to my hamster to be able to vote. (maybe will end up with a better pres, but that is for another topic). I am totally protecting my animals from nature (which also includes other humans), as through domestication, they have lost the ability to survive (well) on their own.
Personally, yes, I have elevated mine to above child-like equality (and others as well).
Not exactly sure what freedoms I need to give them. They can have anything they want, but it is my responsibility to ensure they are safe.
Their freedom includes; a warm, safe place to live, excellent food, multiple walks everyday, going into stores (that allow it) to see the rest of the world, excellent health care, and (as one other poster here stated s/he was doing as well), a nice fat trust fund.

Freedoms such as free-running outside can result in getting hit by a car, getting eaten by a predator, eating something toxic, getting stolen, or being tortured by some sick individual, etc.


We hold back certain freedoms and right those animals posses under the claim of "cariing" for them. But strip away the claim of caring and what you have in both practice and theory is a commidity, a commodity such as a book, car, dog, pencil, bbq grill, cat, sneakers, and yes, just like a toaster. Everything we are doing or claim is for the animal is based on the fact that they are only property.

Were you loved as a child? Believe it or not, a pet can be loved as much as another human.

It is this core fact that to us pets are property that makes the disposal of unwanted property acceptable with animals.

'Us' must mean 'you', as some of 'us' don't see it that way.

A shelter is an acceptable disposal location for that unwanted property and no matter how much it aches someone to have to confron that reality, until such time as we as a society stop treating the aniamls we call pets as proeprty, we really have no right to pass judgement over the manner set up by that same society for disposning of that unwanted property.

Well, some parents see orphanages and foster homes as a disposal location for their kids. Pot, Kettle, Black. (Also run spell-check)

Its allmost as if a holier-than-thou attitute exist when people make claims they care for their animals so much they wouldn't dump them at a shelter, yet they hold onto that pet under the same control and authority as one would hold onto their toaster.

Senseless meandering. 'same control and authority as one would hold onto their toaster'. Well, if the monitor lizard was given 'freedoms' to roam around the neighborhood, anyone who owned any pet smaller than a sheep would be, umm, annoyed,

We should start a movement, called 'OPS', meaning Occupy Pet Shelters. Then we can get legislation passed to give all pets the rights stated in the Constitution, and Bill of Rights. Also pets can declare themselves emancipated by the time they are 18/19 years old (in whatever is their equivalent to human years.)
Interesting.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:54 PM
 
Location: lifelong Detroiter transplanted to Milwaukee
117 posts, read 323,997 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenny1951 View Post
Maybe someone already posted this oldie but goodie in this thread; if not, it's worth a read:

How Could You? A Poem - CountryCanine

I understand there are valid reasons for rehoming a pet. Life throws curve balls at us that we cannot predict. My issue is with people who treat pets as disposable objects when they become the least inconvenient. Now I am practicing what I preach. I developed severe rheumatoid arthritis over the past two years and stopped working. I can no longer afford to live in my home but it sure is hard finding a place that will let me bring a dog and three cats. I just acquired the additional cat when my mom went into a nursing home. The cat is eight and has asthma and no one would adopt her, so she is with me. If I ever sell this house, I am going to buy a travel trailer if I have to in order to keep my gang. Ok that's extreme, i am too old for that, but I won't move until I can find a place to bring them all with me! Just color me stupid for having gotten so many pets many years ago when I thought I could keep them forever. But dump them at a shelter? No way!
It seems like this thread has drifted into a different topic but I wanted to say that I give you credit for trying to find a way to keep your animals even though life has not been easy for you. The way I see it, animals are part of the family. Dogs have amazing loyalty. They deserve the same loyalty from us.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:30 PM
 
3,593 posts, read 10,642,038 times
Reputation: 5197
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
Gladly,

We as people have an underlying inability to confront our true nature of possession and dominance. We pretend that we are a loving and nurturing speciec while all the time exerting dominence over everything we encounter. That dominence with our pets, derives from the most basic concept that we created the ability to own, possess, and dispose of our pets by the most simpest means possible and that is they are property, mere propertry just like a toaster or a car. This is who we are and what we are, a plain old fact of life.

Now we are confronting a sort of morailty shift where we have certain animals we have domesticated and feel we need to protect. Of cousre the truth is we are not protecting the animnals from nature, we are protecting them from humans. In doing so we have elevated them to an alomost child like equality in our lives to provide some protections, YET, stop short if giving them freedoms. We hold back certain freedoms and right those animals posses under the claim of "cariing" for them. But strip away the claim of caring and what you have in both practice and theory is a commidity, a commodity such as a book, car, dog, pencil, bbq grill, cat, sneakers, and yes, just like a toaster. Everything we are doing or claim is for the animal is based on the fact that they are only property.

It is this core fact that to us pets are property that makes the disposal of unwanted property acceptable with animals. A shelter is an acceptable disposal location for that unwanted property and no matter how much it aches someone to have to confron that reality, until such time as we as a society stop treating the aniamls we call pets as proeprty, we really have no right to pass judgement over the manner set up by that same society for disposning of that unwanted property. Its allmost as if a holier-than-thou attitute exist when people make claims they care for their animals so much they wouldn't dump them at a shelter, yet they hold onto that pet under the same control and authority as one would hold onto their toaster.
This is one of those times PF when I'm not sure if you are wording your posts for maximum outrage of if you really do believe what you are slinging. If this is what you truly believe thats fine, I'm very happy to say that I do not agree, will never agree and find your logic riddled with inconsistancies and half truths. As much as they are outragous they are also wrong. You seem to have conveniently passed by all the anti-cruelty laws that are on the books. Last time I looked, there was no law against beating your toaster and throwing it into the garbage. You will however be going to jail if you are convicted of beating your pet and throwing it into the garbage. THAT is what puts it into a separate catagory of property that you have not acknowledged, the obvious recognition that you are dealing with a living animal NOT a toaster. Further, I have just as much right to my opinion as you do to yours. I fully believe that when you take an animal in, you have a moral obligation, if not always a legal one, to do what is best for the animal. For me, that means not tossing it away to a shelter when it no longer agrees with your lifestyle. It is and will always be a humanity issue as well as a legal one.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:22 AM
 
1,195 posts, read 2,514,413 times
Reputation: 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Va-Cat View Post
This is one of those times PF when I'm not sure if you are wording your posts for maximum outrage of if you really do believe what you are slinging. If this is what you truly believe thats fine, I'm very happy to say that I do not agree, will never agree and find your logic riddled with inconsistancies and half truths. As much as they are outragous they are also wrong. You seem to have conveniently passed by all the anti-cruelty laws that are on the books. Last time I looked, there was no law against beating your toaster and throwing it into the garbage. You will however be going to jail if you are convicted of beating your pet and throwing it into the garbage. THAT is what puts it into a separate catagory of property that you have not acknowledged, the obvious recognition that you are dealing with a living animal NOT a toaster. Further, I have just as much right to my opinion as you do to yours. I fully believe that when you take an animal in, you have a moral obligation, if not always a legal one, to do what is best for the animal. For me, that means not tossing it away to a shelter when it no longer agrees with your lifestyle. It is and will always be a humanity issue as well as a legal one.
I disagree - what may be best for the animal is to give it away to a shelter. If I am broke, and I can not feed myself, would it be best to have the animal starve alongside of me, or to roll the dice with a shelter were they may get adopted?

I would rather give away an animal before I mistreated it-
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:51 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,352 posts, read 16,768,849 times
Reputation: 11458
there are many, many programs that are helping people feed their pets so they can keep them in their homes where they belong.... just as there are many, many programs to help people feed themselves if they find themselves in dire straits.....

an owner surrender going into a shelter has virtually no chance of making it out alive.... most are walked straight back to the euth room from the front desk.......
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:11 AM
 
1,195 posts, read 2,514,413 times
Reputation: 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty View Post
there are many, many programs that are helping people feed their pets so they can keep them in their homes where they belong.... just as there are many, many programs to help people feed themselves if they find themselves in dire straits.....

an owner surrender going into a shelter has virtually no chance of making it out alive.... most are walked straight back to the euth room from the front desk.......
Come on lets be honest- And what chance does that same animal have with :

Living in a car with me and my family, with no food nor shelter

Being left in the backyard tied to a tree because a child has allergies, and could possibly get really sick from being in close proximity

Stufffed into a crate all day because work schedules have changed

Having a spouse say either I go or he (the pet) goes or domestic violence situation, etc

The responsible thing to do in all of these scenarios is to give the dog away. Rescues are @ full capcity. Dropping off a dog on a farm is irresponsible. The shelter is the most logical and responisble option for a pet that would be mistreated as a result of life changes, some beyond our control.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:26 AM
 
24,843 posts, read 32,298,423 times
Reputation: 11452
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool rob View Post
Come on lets be honest- And what chance does that same animal have with :

Living in a car with me and my family, with no food nor shelter

Being left in the backyard tied to a tree because a child has allergies, and could possibly get really sick from being in close proximity

Stufffed into a crate all day because work schedules have changed

Having a spouse say either I go or he (the pet) goes or domestic violence situation, etc

The responsible thing to do in all of these scenarios is to give the dog away. Rescues are @ full capcity. Dropping off a dog on a farm is irresponsible. The shelter is the most logical and responisble option for a pet that would be mistreated as a result of life changes, some beyond our control.
My job in life is to see my pets are fine.

That takes priority in all of my life.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:36 AM
 
1,195 posts, read 2,514,413 times
Reputation: 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
My job in life is to see my pets are fine.

That takes priority in all of my life.
I get it, however the average persons priorities usually flow somewhere close to:

Safety of Persons and family
Shelter
Food
Employment
Relationships w/ spouse, children, family, friends etc

More than likely, all of these are usaully intertwined with each other.

If these needs are threatnened, speaking for myself I would have to sacrifice something. And it more than likely would not be a roof over my head, food in my childrens bellies, my job, or my relationship (s) with my SO, children or family.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:37 AM
 
3,593 posts, read 10,642,038 times
Reputation: 5197
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool rob View Post
Come on lets be honest- And what chance does that same animal have with :

You are right - lets be honest...

Living in a car with me and my family, with no food nor shelter
how about getting off your behind and working to REHOME IT?


Being left in the backyard tied to a tree because a child has allergies, and could possibly get really sick from being in close proximity
how about getting off your behind and working to REHOME IT?


Stufffed into a crate all day because work schedules have changed
how about getting off your behind and working to REHOME IT?


Having a spouse say either I go or he (the pet) goes or domestic violence situation, etc
how about getting off your behind and working to REHOME IT?

The responsible thing to do in all of these scenarios is to give the dog away.

Exactly its YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. Giving it away doesn't mean dumping it at the animal equivalent of a death camp. FIND IT A HOME. Responsible people do this every day. Its not a novel concept - just not the easiest way. You took on the responsibility of owning an animal and should at least take the responsibility to make sure its well cared for if you no longer are able to do it. I'll say it again - shelters should be a last resort, after ALL other avenues have been exhausted.

Rescues are @ full capcity. Dropping off a dog on a farm is irresponsible. The shelter is the most logical and responisble option for a pet that would be mistreated as a result of life changes, some beyond our control.

No - the shelter route is the laziest thing to do. Taking an animal to a kill shelter is the modern day equivalent of putting a gun to its head and pulling the trigger. You are just letting someone else do the killing
see above
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:38 AM
 
3,593 posts, read 10,642,038 times
Reputation: 5197
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool rob View Post
I get it, however the average persons priorities usually flow somewhere close to:

Safety of Persons and family
Shelter
Food
Employment
Relationships w/ spouse, children, family, friends etc

More than likely, all of these are usaully intertwined with each other.

If these needs are threatnened, speaking for myself I would have to sacrifice something. And it more than likely would not be a roof over my head, food in my childrens bellies, my job, or my relationship (s) with my SO, children or family.
Then the obvious answer is don't get a dog
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