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Old 01-29-2009, 08:53 AM
 
Location: "The Sunshine State"
4,334 posts, read 13,668,516 times
Reputation: 3064

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerowyn View Post
Trying to get around a pit bull ban by calling your dog some other breed is not a healthy practice for society. What happens is that the new breed or breeds will now become the target of the communities which pushes for and supports these types of bans. Just like book burning it just never stops until the real issue has been resolved.
I don't own a pit but had a beautiful pit live next-door, he was a loving kind dog and we had the best friendship. His owner constantly allowed him to roam free "I just can't keep him in the yard" was the excuse. His dog was accused of killing another dog on a different street. So he just put his dog down. Needless to say it wasn’t his dog that did but another dog that looked like his.
Pit Bull owner or owners of any vicious dog should under go ownership college for a license to own. To many vicious breed owners do train their dogs to be on the attack either on purpose or due to neglect. Too much false information about how to handle a vicious dog is considered legitimate. I live in a area where pits are highly popular. Yet most vicious pit owners are not on the right side of the law.
Don’t blame the dog blame the owner but since they can’t single out the owners ( most owners don’t see that they are doing wrong) then society will go after the easier target. The dog. Sad but true. Can’t legislate knowledge….. Or can they?
There is no such thing as a viscious breed or dog. The owners are the viscious ones, therefor making their pet the same. There are breeds that can have some agression issues. This has to be addressed by responsible owners. Please do not put a bad tag on a breed that already is carrying one due to the bad owners. Any dog that is chained and ignored can become viscious. Is it the dogs fault? Of course not. I went to the emergency vet the other night and there was a woman there with a beautiful female golden retriever, my son asked, is she friendly? The woman said her dog likes people but will bite another dog if it comes too close. The woman portrayed that same persona about herself too! Very unfriendly and standoffish. I could tell her personality was also prejudgmental! She carried those traits right to her dog! (A dog is a reflection of its owner) She looked at my injured pit/mix with nothing but distainful thoughts.

 
Old 01-29-2009, 03:17 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,770 posts, read 40,198,196 times
Reputation: 18106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondie621 View Post
There is no such thing as a viscious breed or dog. The owners are the viscious ones, therefor making their pet the same. There are breeds that can have some agression issues. This has to be addressed by responsible owners. Please do not put a bad tag on a breed that already is carrying one due to the bad owners. Any dog that is chained and ignored can become viscious. Is it the dogs fault? Of course not. I went to the emergency vet the other night and there was a woman there with a beautiful female golden retriever, my son asked, is she friendly? The woman said her dog likes people but will bite another dog if it comes too close. The woman portrayed that same persona about herself too! Very unfriendly and standoffish. I could tell her personality was also prejudgmental! She carried those traits right to her dog! (A dog is a reflection of its owner) She looked at my injured pit/mix with nothing but distainful thoughts.
One of my friends has an Am. Staff. terrier. And she is alright with humans, and was good around small dogs until one bit her in the muzzle a few years back. Ever since then, she hates all little dogs and if she sees one on her walks, she lunges at them snarling. Her owner has not been able to break her of this fixation. The owner is far from a vicious person and I am disturbed at how stubbornly her dog has kept up her hate towards small dogs. They could be ignoring her and across the street, or wagging their tail in play, and she still wants to kill them.

And it seems that once a pit bull is found to be bad around cats, small dogs, other dogs or children, they can't be rehabilitated. At least that's the impression I get from pit bull rescues trying to rehome these dogs. Once they hate on something, they stubbornly keep it going. However, I've yet to adopt an adult dog that hasn't been fostered, and not been able to have it get along with the rest of my dogs (small and medium sized) and cats after a little bit of socialization.

A few months ago, I met a man walking a female pit bull early in the morning by my tire shop. She acted submissive towards me and wanted to sniff my pants. As I own both dogs and cats, I understood her interest. And I petted her. The owner said that he had adopted her a few months earlier. She was a sweet young looking dog except... she couldn't be around any other dogs because she would get aggressive acting. So he walks her carefully and tries to avoid the other neighborhood dogs. The owner didn't think that she would ever change her anti social attitude.
 
Old 01-29-2009, 03:45 PM
 
200 posts, read 979,975 times
Reputation: 190
Ahhh, I've tried to ignore the people saying Pit Bulls can't be rehabilitated, they're all evil, bad around kids...can't do it anymore.

To those who says Pit Bulls who can't be rehabilitated, look up the Michael Vick dogs, only a couple can't be rehabilitated, and mind you these were the "breeding *******" strapped to a raping post, bred every time they were in heat, "bait dogs" that were rip into every time another dog approach them while chained down, let's see another dog put through this and not go through the same exact actions.

Pit Bulls are not human aggressive, the human aggressiveness is a trait that was cured out, these human aggressive dogs put down, it is only resurrected by bad ownership/breeding.
Pit Bulls were known as the "Nanny" in the 40's and 50's, are you saying all this for a reason?!

For those of you who argued Vets who want to ban Pit Bulls, the same vets will recommend Science Diet as a good food for your dog, there are many more Vets and behaviorist who know it's bad ownership to be blamed.
 
Old 01-29-2009, 03:55 PM
Sco
 
4,259 posts, read 4,923,195 times
Reputation: 3373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-idiotarian View Post
That's morally disgusting and criminally negligent.
You do what you have to to get around the ridiculous breed specific persecution. It is disgusting that people will lump all dogs of a certain breed together in order to discriminate against them and their owners. I know a lot of people that own GSDs that have been forced to tell the insurance companies that it is a Belgian Tervuren instead. I really don't care if some wacko thinks it is immoral to lie to an insurance company, I will lie to anyone that I have to if that is what it takes to keep my "evil" dog as part of my family.

What would you do if your chosen breed became the target of BSL and insurance company eradication efforts? I know that a lot of people would feel much differently if their Yorkies and Shih Tzus were forced to wear muzzles and resulted in the loss of homeowner's insurance.
 
Old 01-29-2009, 06:54 PM
 
Location: "The Sunshine State"
4,334 posts, read 13,668,516 times
Reputation: 3064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keliko View Post
Ahhh, I've tried to ignore the people saying Pit Bulls can't be rehabilitated, they're all evil, bad around kids...can't do it anymore.

To those who says Pit Bulls who can't be rehabilitated, look up the Michael Vick dogs, only a couple can't be rehabilitated, and mind you these were the "breeding *******" strapped to a raping post, bred every time they were in heat, "bait dogs" that were rip into every time another dog approach them while chained down, let's see another dog put through this and not go through the same exact actions.

Pit Bulls are not human aggressive, the human aggressiveness is a trait that was cured out, these human aggressive dogs put down, it is only resurrected by bad ownership/breeding.
Pit Bulls were known as the "Nanny" in the 40's and 50's, are you saying all this for a reason?!

For those of you who argued Vets who want to ban Pit Bulls, the same vets will recommend Science Diet as a good food for your dog, there are many more Vets and behaviorist who know it's bad ownership to be blamed.
Thank you!
 
Old 01-29-2009, 07:11 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,770 posts, read 40,198,196 times
Reputation: 18106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keliko View Post
Ahhh, I've tried to ignore the people saying Pit Bulls can't be rehabilitated, they're all evil, bad around kids...can't do it anymore.
I dunno about that. It depends on how much someone can spend on a professional dog whisperer type. And even then, Cesar Milan can't fix every broken dog. I've watched the Animal Cops type shows. And even episodes where the animal shelter workers are clearly pro-pit bull, they are quick to put to sleep pit bulls that have involved in dogfight competitions. While those workers say that pit bulls are great dogs in the hands of a good dog owner, they also say that once they have a taste for fighting, that's it.

Otherwise, frankly I don't blame any responsible parent for not wanting to take a gamble on endangering their childrens' lives when adopting any shelter dog. I feel that of the articles about rehabilitating Michael Vick's dogs, it wasn't stated how many of the new owners also had children in their homes. It's just a less stressful situation for any adopter of shelter dogs if there aren't any children in the homes also. I could never in good conscience encourage any family with children to take a chance on adopting a shelter dog that hasn't been fostered to more thoroughly evaluate it, let alone it being a pit bull or other type of dog on your usual potentially aggressive dog list. And one of the main reasons that I am so relaxed about adopting so many shelter dogs is that I DON'T have children AND I mostly work from home. The average person or family adopting a dog has adults that have fulltime jobs outside the home which makes for a situation of that new dog not having enough attention and supervision as it adjusts to its new life.
 
Old 01-29-2009, 07:21 PM
 
Location: "The Sunshine State"
4,334 posts, read 13,668,516 times
Reputation: 3064
I went to puppy classes with my Mom and her beagle at Petsmart years ago. A 12 year old kid was going thru the classes with his new 5 month old pup. That pup was barking aggressivley and going after every other dog in the class to bite it. It hated all other dogs. By the third class that dog loved all the others! It was a beagle mix. Obedience and constant socialization are the two most important things for a dog. So many people go thru all this training with their dog and then their dog never leaves their homes or backyards....they then wonder why the dog has issues! Hello?
 
Old 01-29-2009, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 18,020,820 times
Reputation: 3731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco View Post
What would you do if your chosen breed became the target of BSL and insurance company eradication efforts? I know that a lot of people would feel much differently if their Yorkies and Shih Tzus were forced to wear muzzles and resulted in the loss of homeowner's insurance.
That's a no-brainer. I wouldn't own a breed that is used for fighting and can be animal- and people-aggressive. Sorry, but there are acceptable risks in life and, for me, that's not one of them, especially since there are dozens of dog breeds from which to choose a pet. And I DO research breeds for what they were bred to do before I even consider whether that breed might be a good match for me.

If the authorities decided that my silky terrier was a threat because there had been an outbreak of silky terrier attacks, I'd muzzle mine. See, the safety and comfort of other people and their pets is more important to me than a minor inconvenience. And I would feel absolutely HORRIBLE if my pet, no matter how well-behaved I thought he was, would injure or, God forbid, kill another animal or a person because I wasn't willing to compromise.
 
Old 01-29-2009, 08:25 PM
 
Location: "The Sunshine State"
4,334 posts, read 13,668,516 times
Reputation: 3064
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
I dunno about that. It depends on how much someone can spend on a professional dog whisperer type. And even then, Cesar Milan can't fix every broken dog. I've watched the Animal Cops type shows. And even episodes where the animal shelter workers are clearly pro-pit bull, they are quick to put to sleep pit bulls that have involved in dogfight competitions. While those workers say that pit bulls are great dogs in the hands of a good dog owner, they also say that once they have a taste for fighting, that's it.

Otherwise, frankly I don't blame any responsible parent for not wanting to take a gamble on endangering their childrens' lives when adopting any shelter dog. I feel that of the articles about rehabilitating Michael Vick's dogs, it wasn't stated how many of the new owners also had children in their homes. It's just a less stressful situation for any adopter of shelter dogs if there aren't any children in the homes also. I could never in good conscience encourage any family with children to take a chance on adopting a shelter dog that hasn't been fostered to more thoroughly evaluate it, let alone it being a pit bull or other type of dog on your usual potentially aggressive dog list. And one of the main reasons that I am so relaxed about adopting so many shelter dogs is that I DON'T have children AND I mostly work from home. The average person or family adopting a dog has adults that have fulltime jobs outside the home which makes for a situation of that new dog not having enough attention and supervision as it adjusts to its new life.
Cesar Milan does not fix broken dogs....he fixes broken people! The Vick dogs were not released to homes unless they were 100 percent sure they were rehabbed. They did not just go to any home either. all went to people who were familiar with the breed and responsible owners.
 
Old 01-29-2009, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 18,020,820 times
Reputation: 3731
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
I dunno about that. It depends on how much someone can spend on a professional dog whisperer type. And even then, Cesar Milan can't fix every broken dog. I've watched the Animal Cops type shows. And even episodes where the animal shelter workers are clearly pro-pit bull, they are quick to put to sleep pit bulls that have involved in dogfight competitions. While those workers say that pit bulls are great dogs in the hands of a good dog owner, they also say that once they have a taste for fighting, that's it.

Otherwise, frankly I don't blame any responsible parent for not wanting to take a gamble on endangering their childrens' lives when adopting any shelter dog. I feel that of the articles about rehabilitating Michael Vick's dogs, it wasn't stated how many of the new owners also had children in their homes. It's just a less stressful situation for any adopter of shelter dogs if there aren't any children in the homes also. I could never in good conscience encourage any family with children to take a chance on adopting a shelter dog that hasn't been fostered to more thoroughly evaluate it, let alone it being a pit bull or other type of dog on your usual potentially aggressive dog list. And one of the main reasons that I am so relaxed about adopting so many shelter dogs is that I DON'T have children AND I mostly work from home. The average person or family adopting a dog has adults that have fulltime jobs outside the home which makes for a situation of that new dog not having enough attention and supervision as it adjusts to its new life.
Exactly right. Shelter dogs don't usually come with a background or history and they're not fostered in homes so rescuers can give important info on behavior. Those who think it's "terrible" for a family with young children not to consider adopting a pit bull from a shelter seems more concerned about dogs' lives than a potential harm to children. I can't go along with that kind of thinking.
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